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beavischrist

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Explain the evil conspiracy of silence that keeps evolutionary theory as a staple of science.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 11:33 AM on November 24, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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evil conspiracy of silence? whats that supposed to mean?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:57 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Some creationists believe modern science deliberately keeps the hoax of evolution afloat by not revealing its falsehood to the public. I am interested in the motives of these scientists.
If a creationist believes there is no conspiracy at all, he merely believes that over 9 out of every 10 scientists does their job poorly.

And the word evil was thrown in there as a joke.

(Edited by beavischrist 11/24/2002 at 2:50 PM).
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 2:49 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Henry Morris believes that all scientific evidence yet undiscovered will reveal that the bible taken literaly is completely accurate. He has answers before he has questions.

Creationists argue that all of science tries to make its discoveries fit with evolution. Why does it do this? What is the conspiracy? What do scientists gain?
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 3:37 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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scientists want evolution to be true because it is supposed to show that there is no god. therefore they distort evidence so they can support a theory that supports atheism


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 5:19 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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What supports this theory?
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 6:32 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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what supports your theory? you have a bad habit of demanding other people to support their beliefs but you cant even support your own


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 6:57 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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There is not the slightest possibility that the facts of science can contradict the Bible, and therefore, there is no need to fear that a truly scientific comparison of any aspect of the two models of origins can ever yield a verdict in favor of evolution.

Henry Morris, Biblical Cosmology and Modern Science (1970)

The only way we can determine the true age of the earth is for God to tell us what it is. And since He has told us, very plainly, in the Holy Scriptures that it is several thousand years in age, and no more, that ought to settle all basic questions of terrestrial chronology.

Henry Morris, The Remarkable Birth of Planet Earth

The only Bible-honoring conclusion is, of course, that Genesis 1-11 is the actual historical truth, regardless of any scientific or chronologic problems thereby entailed.

Henry M. Morris, Remarkable Birth of Planet Earth

Our passion at the Institute for Creation Research is to see science return to its rightful God-glorifying position, and see creation recognized as a strength by the body of Christ; supporting Scripture, answering questions, satisfying doubts and removing road blocks to the Gospel. The Institute for Creation research Graduate School exists to train students in scientific research and teaching skills, preparing effective warriors for the faith.

ICR website, John Morris, President

The Institute for Creation Research Graduate School has a unique statement of faith for its faculty and students, incorporating most of the basic Christian doctrines in a creationist framework, organized in terms of two parallel sets of tenets, related to God's created world and God's inspired Word, respectively.

ICR website, John Morris, President
(In other words, members of the ICR must sign declarations of their faith in Jesus, not their faith in the power of education.)

I think I have made a decent argument that the creationist movement interprets all science only in a way that would make it fit with their literal interpretation of the bible.
I can find more if you'd like.

Now it's your turn.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 7:15 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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nice research and all but u misunderstood what i was trying to say. i told you to give me evidence that supports your theory, which is evidence. instead, you choose to attack creationism. i am starving for evidence that supports evolution, but you cant seem to provide any.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 8:40 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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I asked for evidence for your theory of conspiracy. Then you asked for my evidence, which I assumed meant my evidence for the theory I proposed in this thread. Guess not. It is useless to give you actual proof because it'll just send you to google or the almighty christiananswers.net to find out why what I gave you is wrong. To avoid such circles and because, frankly, neither of us are qualified to discuss biology, I thought investigating the motives of both sides would be an interesting way to go.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 8:44 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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you are right. neither of us have enough knowledge of biology to make a valid argument either way


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 11:32 PM on November 24, 2002 | IP
Jamin

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One thing is for sure.  Both religionists and evolutionists are divided even among themselves.  And both have some truth.  Yes, both have some truth. And no, I'm not suggesting creation by evolution.  If it is true that there is only one truth, then almost everyone is wrong.  What do I mean, you say?  Well, there are thousands of religions believing differently, who attempt to understand the scriptures when the Bible itself says that "interpretations belong to God" (Gen 40:8) And that we are to "let God be true"(Rom 3:4) If you believe the scriptures to be true and that they are inspired by God then you have to believe that God doesnt do a thing unless he reveals it to someone, and of course this would be the truth.(Amos 3:7)   On the other hand, evolutionists are divided among themselves as well.  The dating methods used are not consistent.  The rock layers they rely on for dating isnt consistent around the globe either.  The moral of the story?  Search for the Truth by searching for the most important thing we could ever ask of pray for.  God's requirements.  Prov 2:4 [


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Jamin
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 11:40 AM on November 25, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Wow. That's a good point. I've only thought about it twice in the last 5 minutes, too, thanks to your inability to tailor conversation to specific questions and issues.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 1:41 PM on November 25, 2002 | IP
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Actually, assuming I have an inability is presumptous because you have read only one message of mine.  Presumptousness...the very spirit of evolutionists.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 06:24 AM on November 26, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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beavis is ur typical evolutionist. he has no evidence whatsoever to back up his belief, so instead he chooses to attack anyone else that believes in another theory. he has blindly accepted evolution.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 09:46 AM on November 26, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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is that not an attack in itself, fallingup?  or perhaps judgement?  maybe even that generalization that you get so ticked off about?


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 10:35 AM on November 26, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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You cut and pasted one post into several threads, completely ignoring the current arguments. It is BECAUSE I have only seen one post from you that I drew my conclusion of your "inability to tailor conversation to specific questions and issues".
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:04 PM on November 26, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Thanks for the compliments, falling. You can beat your chest in front of the others all you like but we both know I have evidence that you do not accept. Radiometric dating, the fossil record, chemical and structural similarities, geographic distribution of species, similarities during development (that do exist despite the embelished drawings of one scientist) and astrology (shows the ancient age of the earth, not evolution) all support the theory of evolution. Whether or not the religion you follow accepts this evidence or not has no bearing on if there is actually evidence.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:14 PM on November 26, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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falling...
how can u present creationism as a theory???? there is no evidence to support it. there is nothing at all.  all you are doing is attacking other theories. I don't know much about evolution or some of the scientific stuff you guys are talking about, but I understand logical reasoning. maybe evolution is not perfect; maybe there are discrepancies and unexplained contradictions. isn't that true of all science. scientific understanding is progressive; religious belief is static. even if evolution is flawed, or even wrong, it doesn't point to a God, and certainly not the specificity of a Christian God. If A does not = B, that doesn't mean A necessarily = C. That alone destroys the validity of your position. you have no position.


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 11:37 PM on November 29, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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excuse me, but beavis has been the one who has been critizing the other theory and not supporting his own. now listen, i have not studied any fossils or artifacts and neither has anyone else in this forum. i talked to beavis online, and he even said that there is no way that he can make a good argument to support his theory. that is because we are not professionals in the field. so lets stop pretending that we are


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 11:23 AM on December 1, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Please don't ignore my posts. I can give you preliminary evolution information, I cannot combat all the questions you find on christiananswers.net. I can give you proof, you can choose to not accept it. I have done some studying of the fossil record, again, I cannot personally agrue away all the questions of creationist propaganda. I have tried to move the conversation away from hard facts, you don't want to go into detail about your scientific coverup theory. You say things to me that your own freinds think may be too much.

As Alexander has said, there is no other theory. Your theory is that my theory is wrong. That is not a theory.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 6:36 PM on December 1, 2002 | IP
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I must say that God's patience with us is enough to cause me to worship Him in an amazing way. I am 18, and have been delivered by His miraculous power for over a year now. My testimony is more than enough evidence to completely satisfy any soul searching for answer's.  
     I was born and raised near down-town Grand Rapids. I was born into a household that believed in God,  but never really was stable in Christ.  In fact, my parents were very troubled people,  being choked by the cares of this world.  Make no mistake about it I love my parents deeply, and mean no disrespect towards them in any fashion.  They were constantly using drugs, that was even the case when they met. They would use anything, and ended up, quite frequently on needles....I was probobly about 12 when things really started to fall, I tried marijuana. It seemed like fun, so I began to do it quite often. I started to get into big trouble. I started drinking, and almost died of alchohol poisening the next summer. I said I would quit everything, and was thankful for being alive, but that lasted only one day, and I was at it agian. I ended up being kicked out of school. I didn't care. Years went by completely wasted. Soon I started to do more drugs; acid, 'shrooms, even inhalents.  Things were not looking good for me, I was blacking out nearly once a week. I always made it somehow.  Meanwhile at home my parents, started really evolving in their previosly disguised drug addictions. What they used to try to fight and hide, was now beyond the point of even remote sensability. One day I came down the stairs, just waking up, to see my mom frantically rampaging about.  She seemed convinced that I was doing extremely wicked things. She emphatically yelled that I was; putting fake dirt on the ground,  running in circles around the house, etc. Yet I had just woke up.  My little brother, 10 years old, stood amidst this behavior, wishing for peace. About this same time I was smoking crack, and having violent outbursts myself. A sudden force grabbed me, words only partially descibe my Master's hand. I was not in any position to be saved, but He saved me, He loved me. As I turned to Him, and asked Jesus to forgive me, and asked for another chance...I had a peace flood my spirit, I knew He had heard me, I just knew He was going to love me. I completely recieved deliverence, according to the love of God, from any stonghold satan thought he would pull me down with, I am in Christ, and He in me.
  "All who call on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved."    - Romans 10:13
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:30 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Pie

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Darwin is Dead!.com


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 12:31 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
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Were this "God" of your's to truly be the creator of all, then who, infact, had created him. I do, however, believe that much of the bible did happen in history. Although, who is to say that christianity isn't just a giant cult? Some of these ideas on heaven, how do we know that they're not just as faulty as those of the cult's waiting for their alien friends to come pick them up? How can one be so blind as to think that one being arrived out of nothing, then decided to create everything. There is proof of evolution, yet I am still waiting to see the proof of creationism. To those who say, "It's all faith", then why not have faith in the easter bunny or santa claus. For the same reason we dont worship the tooth fairy lies the reasons behind theories of evolution.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:04 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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ok, Guest...the one who wrote the story of his life...

i feel bad about responding, because your story is sad and touching and I empathize. you should be very proud of yourself...that must have been a hard struggle.  actually, I really really empathize. i also had a very bad drug problem, about 4 years ago. I cleaned up, without God. What gave me the strength? it sounds stupid, but I think it started with a quote i saw by Einstein: "A person starts to live when he learns to live outside himself".
In that, I saw a reason to contribute to society and human beings' happiness outside my own self-absorbed drug world, and that gave me incentive to improve myself. i am not slamming your story...the most important thing is you stopped drugs...but I do not think people need God to make them improve themselves. and your story is not the answer. and it is not evidence that God exists. sorry, it just isn't.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 10:25 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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It is to him.  And being that we will never prove or disprove God's existence it makes it a belief, which is, purely personal.  We seem to forget that there is no "right" answer.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:28 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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I don't normally do this, but I have to agree with Alex.

Proving or disproving evolution does not Prove or Disprove the existence of God.

Unless you have researched and really studied biology, specifically Evolution and evidence that backs it up, you shouldn't try to debate this topic.

If you still want to, go ahead....but the debate will be nothing more than biased arguments coming from Christians and non-Christians.

peace


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 7:19 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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I am not impressed by Pies link. It is the same crap as every other creation site. I am sure you would not be impressed if I made the usual response to creationism site but bought the url www.creationismiscrap.com
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 11:44 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
Pie

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Crap eh? Well, feel free to show us how it isn't accurate. We're waiting.


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 5:32 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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So we can have a war of links? It's pointless and we both know it.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 11:49 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Pie

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Not a war of links, but if you believe evolution, you must have a reason. There are reasons for creation at this site, why don't you accept them?


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 7:54 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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I've posted a lot in this forum. If you actually want to know, feel free to read what I've already said.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 11:19 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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What I'd really like to know is why are there so many forums on Evolution?  Do we need more than one, really?


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 5:19 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
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      I am astonished for every day in God's word, for blessed is He who has ears to hear. Anyone who attempts to put God's power into pespective without being in the Spirit will become confused by an overwhelming spirit of dillusion.  That is why the Apostle Paul told us that our "faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."  He goes on to explain that "God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God."  This is not to say that we have blind faith, but quite the contrary, God wants to reveal Himself to us, along with secrets about His Kingdom.  
     
      There are two basic types of evolution; micro evolution and macro evolution.  Micro evolution is the variation of a particular speciman within the "Kind" barriers God has posted.  That is to say bird to bird type of changes, all of the important features that make up the identity of the original creation remain intact. This is a Biblical fact. In other words there is no dispute from a Godly standpoint.
       The second is macro evolution, this is the gradual blur of the original "Kind" barrier, a smudge in the species identity that is drastic enough to change the dominant physical characteristics, and the mental capabilities of any distinct organism. This is simply an invention of a deprived and uncertian society that has been made foolish by their own knowledge.
     {- will post more- "EVOLUTION" a little nugget I e-mailed out and saved }
     
    The Bible says " The sun rises on the wicked as well as the righteous". God loves all of humanity, and wishes that none would parish. For this purpose He made His Son to bring victory to man"Kind". On Christ the solid rock I stand.
                        - a Soldier of the Cross
   
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:32 PM on December 16, 2002 | IP
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               EVOLUTION
>
>    IF YOU WERE OVER AT MY HOUSE, AND SUDDENLY YOU HEARD A BIG THUMP FROM
THE
> ROOM BEHIND US, AND I TOLD YOU IT WASN'T ANYTHING, YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE ME
> WOULD YOU? NO, BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT THEIR HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT MADE
> THAT NOISE. YOU WOULD HAVE TO THROW AWAY ANY REASON YOU HAVE INSTINCTIVELY
> TO BELIEVE EVOLUTION'S DELERIOUS LIE. THE EARTH HAD A CREATOR JUST AS THE
> BOOK FALLING OFF THE SHELF MADE THE NOISE.
>
>                          THE FIRST STEP
>
>    MANY PEOPLE FORGET THAT DARWIN PROPOSED THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IN THE
> EIGHTEEN HUNDREDS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND. SIENCE WAS
STILL
> VERY UN-INFORMED COMPARED TO TODAY, THEY STILL THOUGHT TO WASH YOUR HANDS
IN
> A BUCKET OF WATER (NOT RUNNING WATER), AND THE SCIENTIFIC TECHNOLOGY WAS
> ONLY AMATURE COMPARED TO TODAY'S. DARWIN HAD NO IDEA HOW COMPLEX THE
LIVING
> CELL WAS. IN FACT SCIENTISTS TODAY HAVE SPENT THEIR WHOLE LIVES MAPING OUT
A
> CELL'S STRUCTURE, STILL ADMITTING TO ONLY PARTIAL COMPLETION. DARWIN WROTE
> DOWN SOME BRAINSTORMING IN 1871, PART OF IT SAYS,"...BUT IF WE COULD
> CONCIEVE SOME WARM LITTLE POND, WITH ALL SORTS OF AMMONIA AND PHOSPHORIC
> SALTS, LIGHT, HEAT...". THIS STATEMENT WAS IN REGARDS TO THE FIRST LIVING
> PROTIEN COMPOUNDS BEING FORMED. I AM STUPIFIED BY THE OVERWHELMING
> ASSUMPTIONS THESE SCIENTISTS MAKE, THEIR IMAGINATION NEEDS TO BE
CONTAINED!
> UNDER ANY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES HE NAMES, IT IS STILL UNCONCIEVABLE THAT
LIFE
> JUST FORMED. WITH ALL OUR TECHNOLOGY WE STILL CANNOT SUCCESFULLY, UNDER
ANY
> CIRCUMSTANCES, CREATE THE SIMPLE EVIDENCE TO BACK UP THESE ABSURD
> ASSUMPTIONS. YET WE HAVE PEOPLE FROM TIME MAGIZINE SAYING,"DARWIN MURDERED
> GOD". THIS IS ESPECIALLY A FOOLISH STATEMENT BECAUSE SCIENCE HAS
UNDENIABLY
> SUPPORTED THE TRUTH OF THE GOD I SERVE. WHICH I WILL SHOW YOU LATER. IN
1980
> SCIENTISTS HAVE PROVED THAT THE EARTH COULDN'T HAVE STARTED UNDER THE
> CIRCUMSTANCES THAT HAD BEEN FAULTY TO AN EXTREME MEASURE ANYWAY. IN ANY
> CASE, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN: WATER, CARBON DIOXIDE, AND NITROGEN, AS OPPOSED
> TO; METHANE, AMMONIA, OR HYDROGEN. SO EVEN THOUGH THE CIRCUMSTANCES THE
> EVOLUTIONSTS DREAMED UP WERE ALREADY WAY OFF FROM CREATING THE NECESSARY
> INGREDIENTS, THEY NOW HAVE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, LESS SILLY, FOOLISH
SPACE
> TO CONCLUDE THEIR NONSENCE FROM. I MUST SAY, THE ONLY THING I SEE EVOLVING
> IS THEIR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. CASE DISMISSED.
>
>                       MAYBE YOUR A MONKEY?!
>
>     I'LL TELL YOU ONE THING, A MONKEY COULD NEVER EVOLVE INTO SOMETHING AS
> GOOD-LOOKING AS ME! ALLTHOUGH SCIENCE CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO GET THIS FAR, I
> WILL STILL SAY A LITTLE SOMETHING. NOW I KNOW THEIR IS ROOM FOR WHAT THE
> BIBLE CALLS "KIND" TO EXPAND WITHIN THE GOD GIVEN BOUNDERIES, BUT
THE "KIND"
> IDENTITY WILL NEVER BE MOVED. IN THAT EVOLUTIONISTS STRUGGLE TO MAKE A
CASE,
> UNLESS THEY ARE NOT PROPERLY OPPOSED BY THE TRUTH. ANY ONE CAN WIN A ONE
> SIDED ARGUEMENT, BUT TRUTH IS EVIDENT IN CHRIST JESUS. DARWIN SAID THAT
THE
> LACK OF FOSSILS CONNECTING AN APE TO MY MOTHER WAS, AND I
QUOTE,"...PERHAPS
> THE MOST OBVIOUS AND SERIOUS OBJECTION."  HE ALSO WAS CONFIDENT THAT THE
> FOSSILS WOULD COME UP, SO HE SAID. ABOUT A HUNDRED YEARS LATER DAVID M.
> RAUP, FROM THE FIELD MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY IN CHICAGO, SAID AS FOLLOWS
>       "WE ARE NOW ABOUT ONE HUNDRED YEARS AFTER DARWIN AND THE KNOWLEDGE
OF
> THE FOSSIL RECORD HAS BEEN GREATLY EXPANDED. WE NOW HAVE A QUARTER OF A
> MILLION FOSSIL SPECIES, BUT THE SITUATION HASN'T CHANGED MUCH.... WE HAVE
> EVEN FEWER EXAMPLES OF EVOLUTIONARY TRANSITION THAN WE HAD IN DARWIN'S
> TIME."
>     IN FACT OUR OLDEST FOSSILS ARE SHOWING FULLY DEVELOPED CREATURES, WITH
> NO ROOM FOR EVOLUTIONS NONSENSE. WE CAN ASSEMBLE DINOSAURS, AND MANY OTHER
> ANCIENT ANIMALS, AND WE WOULD UNDOUBTABLY HAVE FOUND THESE FOSSILS BY NOW.
> THE ODDS OF NOT FINDING ONE OF THOSE MYSTERIOUS FOSSILS IS ABSOLUTELY AND
> COMPLETELY IMPROBABLE. IF ONE SHOWS UP I WOULD PROBOBLY CONCLUDE MEN HAVE
> BEEN DRIVEN INSANE IN AN ATTEMPT TO DIS-PROVE GOD, AND HAD TO FAKE ONE.
> ALMOST LIKE THE TOWER OF BABEL IN GENESIS, MAN DROVE HIMSELF INSANE IN AN
> ATTEPT TO PUT US IN GOD'S PLACE, OR PROVE THAT WE CAN DO ANYTHING WITHOUT
> GOD. OF COURSE THAT IS ONLY TOLERATED FOR A LIMITED TIME, AND GOD SPARES
> THOSE WHO LOVE HIM FROM THE WICKEDNESS AROUND THEM. AGIAN, EVOLUTION HAS
> BEEN DISPROVED BY THE VERY SIENCE IT CLAIMED TO BE BASED ON, FLIMSY,
SUTTLE,
> IMPULSIVE, ASSUMPTIONS. ALL THE WHILE GOD IS STILL ALL POWERFUL, AND
> UN-CHANGED, WAITING FOR AS MANY AS ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT HIS SOVERIENTY,
AND
> SAVE US FROM OURSELVES, FOR THROUGH CHRIST WE ARE SEEN AS PERFECT.
>
>        "FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR
> ONE TITTLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE
FULFILLED.        
>             -JESUS CHRIST

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:34 PM on December 16, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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I will not read all of that as I felt my IQ dropping, but I can at least get a good laugh at the guy who complains that Darwin's science is from the 1800's when his science is from the BC's.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 10:51 PM on December 16, 2002 | IP
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i am sure of one thing...

God will send you to Hell unless you take off the freaking caps lock!!!


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 09:28 AM on December 17, 2002 | IP
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God is the same yesterday, today and forever. His Holy Words are to remain sanctified, and not one jot will be removed until all is fulfilled. I pray that your loved ones will make it through this. I pray for restoration.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:13 PM on December 17, 2002 | IP
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 Alex,
    The only blessings that are reserved  for Christs devout followers are the spiritual one's. He is more than capable of helping us all in various ways. God has given us all a certian package of talents and gifts to use for His glory. We never experience the fullness of these gifts, or may not even recognize some of our gifts, until we become part of the Body of Christ. To clarify something real quick, with the dominion and power He granted us, came also freedom of choice. After all we were created for His glory, but it seems that our praises would be futile if they were not our choice. If they were not our choice then they would be His praises and not ours, but how great the glory revealed to those who choose Christ, forever.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:51 PM on December 19, 2002 | IP
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I believe what we have here is a person who is addicted to religion.  Just like drugs and alcohol, religion can be addictive.  

With religious addiction the attraction is to escape from reality into a fanatasyland where god takes absolute control of their lives, directing their every thought and action.  This is a bible intoxicated fundamentalist who gets drunk on the scriptures and high on god to an extreme degree.  The first sign of this addiction is the compulsive talk about god and quoting from the bible as if the answers to everything can be found in the bible.

For the most part religion can be a positive thing, unless taken to extremes.  It becomes dangerous when the person loses their perspective and have a narrow interpretation of religion and the world.  This addiction to religion shuts down critical thanking and the ability to rational thought.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:43 AM on December 20, 2002 | IP
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  I must say that there is severe spiritual battle taking place. I can see the enemy of our souls moving amidst us trying to attack the Lamb. Satan can't get a shot at the Holy Redeemer, but he can attack His beautiful creation. I mean after all, the Son of God came and died for our sins, so satan's attacks our cunningly devised for his wicked purpose. I warn you that satan shall still appear as an angel of light, don't be decieved, for he roams around seeking whom he may devour.  {1 Peter 5:8} He seeks, he cannot devour those are dedicated to the Lamb, for Jesus shall bear witness of those who are His.  Any man seeking truth shall find it in Christ. I warn you that anything that is questionable in your Spirit is sin.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:27 PM on December 21, 2002 | IP
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Guest, (the one who talked about people being addicted to religion) I could say a lot about your post, but I'll try to keep this short!
You mentioned that the "addiction to religion shuts down critical thanking and the ability to rational thought."  Well, you could be right and you could be wrong.  It depends on what kind of faith your religion is based on.  every religion is based on faith of one kind, either objective faith, or subjective faith.  Objective faith is based on the evidence, subjective faith is held in spite of the evidence.  That being said, we need to determine which faith, yours or mine, is based on the evidence, and which faith is held in spite of the evidence.
Evolution is actually the basis for the religion of secular humanism.  Science has trashed evolution (which doesn't even deserve the title of "theory") time and time again.  Try as you might, you can not find even a shred of scientific evidence that supports evolution!  If you could though, you could make some big bucks.  Dr. Kent Hovind has offered a $250,000 reward for anyone who can provide any such evidence.  Go ahead!  Try!  Here's the link: http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=250k
Take him to court over whatever you think may pass as "evidence"!  A piece of advice though, save yourself some trouble and bring any "evidence" you find to this forum first.  I'll give you a preview of what Dr. Hovind will tell you, only he probably won't be as nice as I will.
By the way, this reward has been out for over ten years (it started at $10,000) and no one has succeeded in bringing in any evidence.


-------
David B. Thompson


God
Bless
America!!!
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 2:53 PM on December 24, 2002 | IP
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And try as you might you can not find a single shred of scientific evidence to support the idea of creationism.  To do that you will first have to prove their is a god, and you or no one else has ever done that.

Most religious people claim to know god through an inner spiritual experience.  But these experiences point to nothing outside of the mind.  Mysticism can be explained psychologically; it is not necessary to complicate our understanding of the universe with your fanciful assumptions.  We do know that many humans habitually invent myths, hear voices, hallucinate and talk with imaginary friends.  We do not know there is a god.

There are millions of god believers, but this is a statement about humanity not about god.  Truth is not something which is attained by vote.  Religions arose to deal with death, weakness, dreams, and fear of the unknown.  Religion can be accepted by faith only, there is no proof.  To claim some inner experience as proof is silly.

By finding faults with evolution, you do nothing to prove the case for creation.  Attacking evolution does not advance the case for creation one iota.  If you want to offer proof that creation took place, do that.  Your argument only looks ridiculous when all you do is point out the faults in evolution.  That is not an argument for creation.  It is not an either or proposition.  There are many other alternatives besides evolution or creation.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 06:09 AM on December 28, 2002 | IP
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Alright, time for a lesson in basic science!
There are two approaches to the origins question; the naturalistic and the supernaturalistic.

In science, there are certain criteria that must be met for an explanation of any event to be considered reliable and scientific.  "Modern science" (pseudoscience) claims that there is no supernatural, so most "scientists" only deal with the natural realm.  In this realm, these are the criteria which must be met:

1. You must be able to prove that the "event" (or something) took place.  (Easy, we're here aren't we?)

2. You must be able to explain how the event occurred.  (Using the natural laws of physics, chemistry, etc.)

3. You must be able to prove that your hypothesis is feasible and produce supporting evidence.

4. Every peice of new evidence that shows up must further support your theory.

In order for an event to be supernatural, (I know you don't believe in the supernatural, but bear with me and you'll find out how to prove your position) it must meet the following criteria:

1. You must prove that something occured.  (Again, easy)

2. You must prove that the occurance was naturally impossible due to the known laws of chemistry, physics, etc.

Note: science not being able to explain how an event happened is not necessarily enough to put the event in the "supernatural" category.  All natural explanations must be proven false by natural scientific laws!  (Physics, chemistry, etc.)

Thus, if I can scientifically disprove all natural explanations for origins, I have sucessfully proved that A supernatural explanation is the accurate one.  All you have to do to prove that there is no supernatural is to come up with a scientifically sound natural explanation!

Notice that I said "A" supernatural explanation.  This means that disproving evolution (the only natural explanation for origins) does not prove Biblical creation per se, rather it proves that supernatural intervention of some kind occured!  From there, we get into arguments between different supernatural explanations.

I don't really like using the "personal experience" argument, at least not on its own.  Guest is right, some of that can be explained within the natural realm.

As to faith, remember what I said in my last post about subjective faith vs. objective faith?  All science is based on faith, but we need to make sure that its an objective faith, or faith based on the evidence.  For example, as a chemist, (or anyone else for that matter) you count on certain chemicals reacting in exactly the same way as they did the last time you checked!  (Assuming that your mixing the same amounts of the same chemicals!)  When you mix those chemicals, you're exercising faith, objective faith!  You have faith that those chemicals will do what they're supposed to do, based on one piece of evidence: they always have in the past!  That's good science!


Disproving evolution proves supernatural intervention!  That's why we Creationists are always attacking evolution!  We know that evolution is scientifically impossible, and that is proof of creation of some kind.  (Not necessarily Biblical creation)

So now we can move on to the scientific arguments.  I'd encourage you to bring out whatever "evidence" you may think you have for evolution.  From "ape men" to amoebas, I'll show you the scientific problems with evolution!

Come on!  Let's be open about this!  All cards on the table!


-------
David B. Thompson


God
Bless
America!!!
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 07:15 AM on December 28, 2002 | IP
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David! Good to see you again. I think we have found something to agree on here!!! Go get 'em!




-------
Are you a man of the times, or a man for the times?
 


Posts: 51 | Posted: 10:07 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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You got to admit though, David, you never can get enough of God's love.                 Ben
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:32 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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The fact that the vast majority of scientists believe evolution to be fact wieghs heavily on the side of proevolution crowd. If there is such heavy evidence that disproves evolution why is there a backlash from non-fundamental Christians opposing the idea? Surely there would have to be a great many of scientist who only care about the search for truth and do no need to support evoltion as a way of guranteeing proof of atheism.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:48 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
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 Yea, and surely those same people would have believed Jesus was the Massiah , too. After all, He did all sorts of miracles, so it just makes sense, right?!  No, they were selfish, and want to only support their foolish desires, at all costs. God is good!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 07:43 AM on January 3, 2003 | IP
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First of all, many scientists do reject evolution.  You would think that there would be many more, but there aren't.  Why?  Because grants are only awarded to scientists who perform evolution based research.  Guest, your questions are very good ones!  The answers, however, are not easy.  I would recommend an audiocassette called "Why I Am A Creationist When So Many Scientists Are Not".  You can order it here: "Why I Am A Creationist When So Many Scientists Are Not"

Dr. Jay Wile, himself a qualified scientist, gives the answers to your questions.

However, we seem to be too entangled with looking to the "experts" for our answers.  Sure, a scientist should be able to give you answers, but scientists disagree on many issues, this one included.  You can also check something out for yourself.  Look at the evidence and come to your own conclusion.

One of the best (in my opinion.  There are a multitude of others!) evidences against evolution is found in biochemistry.  It is scientifically impossible for life to evolve from non-life.  (Abiogenisis)  Now I know what you're thinking; "But scientists have proved it!  They've created life in a test tube!"
Let's look at how they say it works:
They say that a chemical slime was heated and the chemicals reacted to form basic amino acids.  The amino acids then came together to form proteins, which are sometimes called the "building blocks of life".  This was their hypothesis, but it lacked proof.  Thus the famed Miller\Urey experiments.  Actually, the Miller\Urey experiments did create some basic amino acids, but there are a few problems:

First, they used a group of chemicals that they knew would be successful.  The problem?  There is no evidence that our atmosphere ever contained all of those chemicals in those particular mixtures (which happen to be poisonous).

Second, the amino acids they produced are not found in any known form of life today!  So the amino acids they ended up with are the wrong kind; they have nothing to do with life!

Third, they placed a "trap" in the system to catch the amino acids and prevent them from returning to their starting point.  Why?  Because if they hadn't done that, the experiments wouldn't have worked!
There is no evidence for such a trap in nature by the way.

There are many reasons that the experiment would have failed were it not for the trap, but I'll just give you a couple of them:

If the right amino acids could have formed on earth, (and no one has been able to demonstrate that they can) they would have been quickly destroyed by the very form of energy which "created" them in the first place!  Whether that energy came from the sun or from lightning, any amino acids already in existence would have been destroyed!

Additionally, the amino acids produced by the Miller\Urey experiment, which are the only kind that have ever been produced in this way, would have destroyed any amino acids of the right kind!

This is only a few of the problems with the "theory" (not really that) of abiogenisis, which is foundational to evolution!

What about the "ape men"?  Take your pick, and I'll show you what dedicated evolutionists don't want you to see.  Not one of these so-called "ape men" is evidence for evolution.  Some have actually been found to be identical to people living today, some have been found to be a complete hoax, and the rest fall in between.

One reason that many evolutionary "scientists" are so dedicated to their "scientific" beliefs is that if they once admit that their naturalistic explanation is false, than they'll have to acknowledge the reality of a supernatural.  From that point, they've lost their last defense against the reality that they are accountable to an all-powerful and all-knowing God.

They really have the harder end of things, because they don't want to admit to wrongdoing or future judgment.  They seem to think that if they ignore it, it will just go away.  Not so.  Reality has to be dealt with.  How?  How should we deal with the reality of God and His proclaimed day of judgment?

So what's the deal with God, judgment day, etc.?  Here's a site that I think you will find very helpful.  It can't hurt anything to check it out, you have nothing to lose!  If you don't, on the other hand, trust me, you have more to lose than you could possibly imagine!
Here's the link:

www.NeedGod.com

I'd be glad to answer any other questions you might have!

God bless!


-------
David B. Thompson


God
Bless
America!!!
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 09:52 AM on January 3, 2003 | IP
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This debate seems to me to be a little closed. A binary has been constructed as if christian creationism and evolution were the only possible explanations. I have always been partial to evolution but this is based only on my knowledge of genetics not a close examination. I am the first to say that science doesn't have it right it almost never does. We know that existence is a big place and that we likely know next to nothing about it. The fact is there are lots of other possibilities, especially when it comes to creation myths. Other religions and cultures have their own ideas about the origins of life and the world and they have just as much of a claim to truth as any christian ideal, and I guess as science as well. These discussions are inevitably devoid of much humility. It is best to remember that we should all be co-operating to try and find the truth and not beating each other over the head with our own brand of it.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:09 PM on January 3, 2003 | IP
    
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