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   Creationism vs Evolution Debates
     Evidence for Evolution - Hox
       homeotic genes

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orion

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First - just to clear up a little question from the previous post by 'xleo' - matter can indeed be transformed into energy, and vice versa.  What you're getting confused about from your junior high school science is that 'matter can't be created or destroyed by chemical means'.  But matter/energy can be created/destroyed (transformed into one another) by non-chemical means via nuclear processes within stars, for example.  Nuclear bombs also convert matter to energy --> remember Einstein's famous equation:  E=mc(squared)?

If you delve into quantum physics you will also see that the matter/energy creation/destruction happens.  But that's getting into an area I know little about.

In our ordinary world of rocks, bananas, cars, and people we do not see matter being created or destroyed.  But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  Transformation of matter/energy happen all the time in the universe at large.

Now to get on to a piece of strong evidence for evolution --> homeotic genes.

Homeotic genes were discovered in the 1980's.  They are a class of genes that are responsible for regulating the embryonic development of multicellular organisms - insects, mice, people, etc.  A small change in a homeotic gene can produce drastic changes in the development of an animal or plant.  Minor changes in Hox genes in insects can cause dramatic changes to occur in body plans - extra pair of wings, legs growing out of the head, etc.  That's probably why insects are such a diverse group of annimals - the Hox gene allows them to diversify their body plans quickly.

The question comes to my mind, if God created living things to be unchanging and immutable, then why do some genes (the homeotic genes - the organism's master regulator gene) lend themselves to be so easily changed (via mutations in DNA) and allow a clear mechanism for evolution?    

And this is just one small piece of evidence supporting evolution.  
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 3:51 PM on June 4, 2008 | IP
djconklin

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if God created living things to be unchanging and immutable
Don't make that assumption.
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 9:08 PM on February 7, 2009 | IP
wisp

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He didn't.

Hence the "if".



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 9:32 PM on February 7, 2009 | IP
Casewondering

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I am a little confused.  I have heard from a few different people that mutations ALWAYS result in something harmful or bad to the organism and that they can never result in something as complex as lungs or eyes on organism without.  Is this true?  Are all mutations bad? Is there any evidence?


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Casewondering
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 01:20 AM on February 8, 2009 | IP
wisp

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No, that's false.

A harmful mutation is far more likely than a benign one, but the harmful ones are culled out by natural selection.

And the few benign ones spread quite rapidly.

And that's how things evolve (well, that's one of the ways).

Imagine a sculpture. It's not finished.

Throw a rock at it.

Chances are it will be for worse.

But imagine a replicating sculpture. There's a selective pressure that tends to "kill" the worst sculptures.

Once one of your stones make a little improvement, the (now best) sculpture will produce more offspring.

Someone thought some similar, with the Mona Lisa:


http://rogeralsing.com/2008/12/07/genetic-programming-evolution-of-mona-lisa/


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 01:38 AM on February 8, 2009 | IP
bexlovesya

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[b]Just to put my view across on what was said earlier
"The question comes to my mind, if God created living things to be unchanging and immutable, then why do some genes (the homeotic genes - the organism's master regulator gene) lend themselves to be so easily changed (via mutations in DNA) and allow a clear mechanism for evolution?"

What i think is that god did create the animals for unchanging etc...however humans have done so much damage to this earth - i don't think i need to explain how - and so of corse we've changed the environment so much...and so of corse gods animals are going to have to adjust to the damage that we have caused. Yes??


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Bex :P
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 11:36 PM on February 26, 2009 | IP
orion

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And the fossil record?  How do you explain that the fossil record shows a distinct change over time of species - without humans being present for the utterly vast majority of that time?  More drastic environmental changes have occurred in the past than what humans are producing now - although I don't take the environmental damage that we're doing lightly.  It's very distressful to see happen.  Still, there were greater catastrophes in the past.
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 12:37 AM on February 27, 2009 | IP
wisp

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bexlovesya
What i think is that god did create the animals for unchanging etc...
But they do change. A lot. Did you know that there were 160 elephant species?

Even some creationists agree that the cat and the lion had a common ancestor (in the Ark). The same with the wolf/dog/coyote/fox.
however humans have done so much damage to this earth
Are you saying that we were created the only mutant animals because we did harm to the world?

That wouldn't make sense. We were created (according to the Bible) BEFORE damaging the world.
and so of corse we've changed the environment so much...and so of corse gods animals are going to have to adjust to the damage that we have caused. Yes??
That's a nice idea. I like it. It's present in many anime (japanese cartoons), like Arjuna, Evangelion, X, Mononoke Hime, Nausicaa, and others. (I like anime, obviously.)

But what does that have to do with our mutations?

I don't see any sense in it, unless you're saying that animals cause us to mutate, which is unlikely.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 07:13 AM on February 27, 2009 | IP
    
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