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Okay, Xleo, first order of business: Clean up your post in the other thread. I haven't the slightest clue who or what you're responding to for the majority of your points. More importantly, due to the... artistic quality of your post, it's physically impossible to respond to it in the same thread.


It actually proves that there was a world wide flood buddy.


Wow! Experiments, evidence, and scientific method go out the window because, if Xleo says something is so, it must be true!

everything?


??? What is that supposed to mean?

It's the same thing I've been hearing since teachers began to indoctrinate our children in schools.


What is?

1.  You're a lier...  Matter can't be destroyed nor created.


Wrong.

2.  I don't care how it act or whatever... I need answers buddy...  Where your sources buddy?


Who is "buddy"? You don't care how what acts?

Don't give me sources on this...


Okay, so now, for some other unidentified point, you don't want sources.

Do you believe in God, Jesus, Holy Spirit???  I don't care what majority thinks.   Tell me, how do you determine right from wrong?   Evolution/Darwinism is totally opposite to what bible teaches.  


Belief in something supernatural doesn't have anything to do with right and wrong. Right and wrong don't exist. Even if God exists, that doesn't mean right and wrong exist. If God exists and God says something is right and something is wrong, then the idea of right and wrong is simply an arbitrary construct.

I don't need to believe in anything supernatural to have a moral compass, of course. Just because right and wrong are artificial concepts does not mean our society cannot impose rules on itself in order to help make everyone's lives easier and more enjoyable.

As for evolution, it says absolutely nothing about right and wrong. Evolution doesn't contract any kind of Biblical morality anymore than gravity.

I don't think it works that way.  If you know that you're here just by a chance than why live???


Um, because my brain is hardwired to keep living? My genetics are the product of 3.5 billion years of survival. Do you think an organism that easily disobeys the commands of its genes and commits suicide would be selected for in nature? There's a reason people have a hard time willing themselves to commit suicide, and it has nothing to do with religion.

After all, we're going to die.  What should disabled people do in this case?  Should they just kill themselves?


How does that follow from evolution whatsoever? Everyone wants to survive because their subconscious is telling them to survive. In case you're curious, it hurts to die. Try starving yourself and see how long you last before you grab a loaf of bread off the counter.

#4  The theory of evolution most emphatically does not say that humans arose purely by chance.


Whoever wrote this, He/she doesn't believe in evolution.  They're just doing they're job...


Again, false


I have no idea who said the above and what point you're trying to make. Clean up your post.





-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 4:31 PM on June 4, 2008 | IP
iangb

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The below is xleos post, cleaned up.
I think. He kinda forgot to put the / in the quote close tags.
Quote from xleo at 7:36 PM on June 4, 2008 :
The fossil record is pretty good, actually...


It actually proves that there was a world wide flood buddy.

everything?


It's the same thing I've been hearing since teachers began to indoctrinate our children in schools.

A1: Yes - it can be transformed into energy and back again.
A2: To describe the 'laws' of physics as 'laws' is somewhat naive. They describe how the universe acts, they don't tell the universe what to do. Regardless... no-one knows.


1.  You're a lier...  Matter can't be destroyed nor created.  I know it transforms or changes it's form.  I knew that buddy.  Most of us knew that since Junior High.

2.  I don't care how it act or whatever... I need answers buddy...  Where your sources buddy?


False


Don't give me sources on this...  Do you believe in God, Jesus, Holy Spirit???  I don't care what majority thinks.   Tell me, how do you determine right from wrong?   Evolution/Darwinism is totally opposite to what bible teaches.  

have another link

I don't think it works that way.  If you know that you're here just by a chance than why live???  Why should I suffer, work?  After all, we're going to die.  What should disabled people do in this case?  Should they just kill themselves?

#4  The theory of evolution most emphatically does not say that humans arose purely by chance.


Whoever wrote this, He/she doesn't believe in evolution.  They're just doing they're job...


Again, false


Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor


He thinks human eye is 'imperfect' and 'simple'.  Either he is stupid or ignorant.   Do some research on a human eye.

Irrelevant

I don't think it's irrelevant.  I think it's the same concept.



Pretty much all of the stuff he was responding to was me, from my post immediately after his.

It was nice of him to justify my Creationist's Claim.

(Edited by iangb 6/5/2008 at 08:56 AM).


-------
The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head.
 


Posts: 81 | Posted: 08:45 AM on June 5, 2008 | IP
xleo

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Okay, Xleo, first order of business: Clean up your post in the other thread. I haven't the slightest clue who or what you're responding to for the majority of your points. More importantly, due to the... artistic quality of your post, it's physically impossible to respond to it in the same thread.


I apologize for that...


Wow! Experiments, evidence, and scientific method go out the window because, if Xleo says something is so, it must be true!


Now watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svOCD5jKb5A

Explain this to me.  Sometimes petrified trees that are found standing upside down running through many differenet layers.  Those layers can't be different ages...
http://www.prophecyandtruth.com/evolve2.htm


everything?

It's 'iangb' quote (I apologize for not quoting it right)
??? What is that supposed to mean?




Wrong.

I didn't see any life that's being created.  Particles are nothing compared to a cell or a living organism.  Read it carefully, there are many flaws with that theory.


Who is "buddy"? You don't care how what acts?

again, I apologize for not quoting it properly.


Okay, so now, for some other unidentified point, you don't want sources.

The reason why I said don't give me sources on that because evolution and creation are both religions.


Belief in something supernatural doesn't have anything to do with right and wrong. Right and wrong don't exist. Even if God exists, that doesn't mean right and wrong exist. If God exists and God says something is right and something is wrong, then the idea of right and wrong is simply an arbitrary construct.

I don't need to believe in anything supernatural to have a moral compass, of course. Just because right and wrong are artificial concepts does not mean our society cannot impose rules on itself in order to help make everyone's lives easier and more enjoyable.

As for evolution, it says absolutely nothing about right and wrong. Evolution doesn't contract any kind of Biblical morality anymore than gravity.


Actually you're wrong...  Belief has to do everything with right and wrong.  If I am going to come up to you and shoot you in the head.  Would that be right or wrong???  after all I am deciding what's right and what's wrong.  I don't  need God or bible.  I am God of my own decisions.  Think about it...


Um, because my brain is hardwired to keep living? My genetics are the product of 3.5 billion years of survival. Do you think an organism that easily disobeys the commands of its genes and commits suicide would be selected for in nature? There's a reason people have a hard time willing themselves to commit suicide, and it has nothing to do with religion.


Again you're telling me what you think.  It's your personal interpretation of life.  Tell me, why you live on this planet???


How does that follow from evolution whatsoever? Everyone wants to survive because their subconscious is telling them to survive. In case you're curious, it hurts to die. Try starving yourself and see how long you last before you grab a loaf of bread off the counter.


I am sorry, but you have misunderstood my statement.  It's not about starving to death.  It's when you don't a purpose to live.  You feel you're not loved.  You feel like you're not needed.  After all humans are animals according to evolution.  Those thoughts push people/teenagers to commit suicide.


#4  The theory of evolution most emphatically does not say that humans arose purely by chance.

I simply quoted from the article that 'iangb' gave me.

Whoever wrote this, He/she doesn't believe in evolution theory.  They're just doing they're job...

this statement is mine.


Again, false

this was 'iangb's' quote.

I have no idea who said the above and what point you're trying to make. Clean up your post.


I'll clean it up.

Thanks iangb for clearing it.

watch this video and tell me what you think.

http://www.thefirmament.org/  

(Edited by xleo 6/5/2008 at 3:25 PM).
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 3:18 PM on June 5, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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Explain this to me.  Sometimes petrified trees that are found standing upside down running through many differenet layers.  Those layers can't be different ages...

And they're not and geologists have known this for a long, long time.  They are well accounted for by conventional geology and offer no evidence for young earth creationism or a global flood, from here:
PolystrateFossils
"According to scientists, polystrate fossils are just fossils which were buried in a relatively short time span either by one large depositional event or by several smaller ones. Geologists see no need to invoke a global flood to explain upright fossils. This position of geologists is supported by numerous examples, which have been found at numerous locations, of polystrate, upright, trees completely buried within either late Holocene or historic sediments. These polystrate trees demonstrate that conventional geologic processes are capable of burying and preserving trees in an upright position such that in time, they will become fossilized."



 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 12:27 AM on June 10, 2008 | IP
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Quote from Demon38 at 12:27 AM on June 10, 2008 :
Explain this to me.  Sometimes petrified trees that are found standing upside down running through many differenet layers.  Those layers can't be different ages...

And they're not and geologists have known this for a long, long time.  They are well accounted for by conventional geology and offer no evidence for young earth creationism or a global flood, from here:
PolystrateFossils
"According to scientists, polystrate fossils are just fossils which were buried in a relatively short time span either by one large depositional event or by several smaller ones. Geologists see no need to invoke a global flood to explain upright fossils. This position of geologists is supported by numerous examples, which have been found at numerous locations, of polystrate, upright, trees completely buried within either late Holocene or historic sediments. These polystrate trees demonstrate that conventional geologic processes are capable of burying and preserving trees in an upright position such that in time, they will become fossilized."







I understand few trees, but what about whole forest being petrified.  

Also those trees are not few feet tall, but they're really tall.

PS: If you're blind enough not to see the evidence than I am sorry, but you're willingly ignorant of...

Again, watch this video and see the truth.

http://www.thefirmament.org/  
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 9:31 PM on June 10, 2008 | IP
Demon38

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I understand few trees, but what about whole forest being petrified.

Guess you didn't bother to read the article I referenced, from here:
PolystrateFossils

"This type of volcanism generates and deposits large quantities of loose volcanic material as a blanket over the slope of a volcano as happened during the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo. Both during and for years after a period of volcanism occurs, lahars and normal stream activity wash this loose volcanic material downslope. These processes result in the rapid burial of large areas of the surrounding countryside beneath several meters of sediment as directly observed during the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo."

So a whole forests being petrified is best explained by real geology, not primitive myths like the flood.  

Also those trees are not few feet tall, but they're really tall.

Tall trees are no problem for real geology, what's your point?

PS: If you're blind enough not to see the evidence than I am sorry, but you're willingly ignorant of...

Since you use anti-science sources, claim primitive myths are true and generally don't understand how science works, the only blind man here is you.

The video you posted is nothing but a bunch of ignorant superstition.  Belive it if you wish but don't force your ignorance on the rest of us.  And it's apparent you can't back up any of your nonsense with any evidence.  
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 12:18 AM on June 11, 2008 | IP
orion

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I have to agree with Demon.  There are petrified forest in quite a few places on earth - Arizona, Washington, Alaska, Madagascar, etc.

It's no mystery that forests can become petrified - volcanic eruptions, mudslides, even tsunamis can bury entire forests and cause them to become petrified.  As long as the trees are rapidly buried without any oxygen to cause them to decay.

There have been massive volcanic eruptions throughout earth's history.  One, about 250 million years ago, was a probable cause for the mass extinction that occurred - this occurred about 25 million years before the rise of the dinosaurs.

Yellowstone National Park lies on a huge super volcano that has erupted in the past and covered much of the continental US in volcanic ash.  

Here's an excerpt about the recent mineralization of a forest in Alaska.

Does Wood Become Petrified? Usually, it takes over 100,000 years for it to be completely turned into stone, but in the Seward Peninsula it only took a few years! The astonishing rapid permineralization of forests in Kenai Fjords National Park has once again proven that "Alaska is the Land of Extremes".

The phenomenon of rapid permineralization occurring was only a theoretical premise until the 1964 earthquake. The largest earthquake in the Northern Hemisphere of 9.2 on the Richter scale caused 70m (230ft) tsunamis that inundated the coastal areas with seawater at depths of 3m to 15m (11.8ft to 59ft). The long submersion, up to 5 years in seawater, caused the trees to replace the water in their tissues with seawater that contained silica and other minerals. Organic tissue, like wood, contains pores and spaces. The seawater fills the pores of the organic tissues and moves through the cellular spaces. During this process, the saturated water evaporates and the excess minerals are deposited on the cells and tissues. This process creates many layers of silica that replaces the organic tissue and turns a once viable tree to stone.  
Petrification process usually requires wood to be covered with such agents as volcanic ash, lava and mud flow, sediments in lakes and swamps, or material washed in by a violent flood. The afore mentioned agent must exclude oxygen to prevent decay of the organic tissue, since mineralization is usually a slow process.
Once wood becomes petrified, it can last for eons. For example, the Petrified Forest National Park in Northeastern Arizona has petrified wood that has been preserved for millions of years. During the Triassic Period over 225 million years ago, it used to be a semi-tropical forest with a range of volcanic mountains. The volcanic ash decomposed and released chemicals into the water that seeped into the fallen logs. The chemicals reacted with the organic material in the wood and formed quartz crystals. The petrified wood is very colorful because of the many types of minerals other than silica within their water source.  
Minerals saturating the water gives the petrified wood color. Some of the minerals causing the colors are:
Copper, Cobalt, Chromium cause green and blue  
Manganese cause pink  
Carbon cause black  
Iron Oxides cause red, brown, and yellow  
Manganese Oxides cause black  
Silica cause white and gray.

 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 12:42 AM on June 11, 2008 | IP
    
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