PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Creationism vs Evolution Debates
     numbers not in evolutionists f
       numbers not in evolutionists f

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 ... 7 8 ... 29 30 ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

What came first? The earth or the stars? I'd say the stars but there is room for interpretation.
Interpretation of what?
Well, with all the holes and gaps in the darwinists theories,
Treat them in their specific threads.
I take seriously the Creationists point of view.
Seriously, we know.
I am supposed to believe natural selection, which you folks say is blind, has transformed the crudest of living things and cells into intricate complex beings?
Any real objections to that?
The eye foe example,
zzz...
it is necessary to see so we can live and hunt our food.
No. i'm a vegetarian.
But what "thing" foresaw this fact and decided to morph into an eye?
None.
What is the force involved?
Love.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:41 PM on March 25, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I am supposed to believe natural selection, which you folks say is blind, has transformed the crudest of living things and cells into intricate complex beings?
Waaaait a minute...

Yesterday Evolution (not even abiogenesis) wanted to make you belive that the crudest simple elements were transformed into the intrincate complex living cells...
Today it wants to make you believe that the crudest of living things and cells were transformed into intricate complex beings...

I see your reasoning is evolving.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:59 PM on March 25, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Even vegetarians need to see with their eyes where the plants are to walk over to them and harvest them. But the eye is oh so complicated and according to you, the eye was a mass of tissue that one day became useful and gave sight. What force,pray tell caused this to happen?

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 8:01 PM on March 26, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:




-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 8:07 PM on March 26, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Don't stand too close when you light it.

So what was that mysterious force wisp?
 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 8:14 PM on March 26, 2009 | IP
orion

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

gluteus -

you might try doing a little research on the subject of eye evolution.  Here, read this from Wikipedia:

Eye Evolution


Evolution only seems impossible if you're ignorant about the subject.  But thinks for asking, I'm learning things that I didn't know.
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 10:09 PM on March 26, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from gluteus_maximus at 8:01 PM on March 26, 2009 :
Even vegetarians need to see with their eyes where the plants are to walk over to them and harvest them. But the eye is oh so complicated and according to you, the eye was a mass of tissue that one day became useful and gave sight. What force,pray tell caused this to happen?


The need for food.  In the case of the single celled Euglana, light, so only a tiny fraction of a cell is needed.




One really cool feature of Euglena and other related organisms, is the presence of a pigmented organelle, or eyespot, that allows the organism to orient toward or away from light. This is a sensible adaptation since these organisms carry out photosynthesis. The image to the left show the eyespot . The eyespot itself is not sufficient to help the organism turn toward light since the cell is transparent. So the outside of the eyespot is covered by a black pigmented area. The Euglena determines which way turn turn by turning to the direction in which the eyespot is receiving the least light. In this direction the pigmented eyespot is most directly shaded by the black pigmented area.  


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 10:35 PM on March 26, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

So what was that mysterious force wisp?
Your scenario is a joke, and there are no misterious
forces. Perhaps you mean Evolution, or natural selection. I don't know, but i'm certain that you don't care.

You don't know anything about Evolution OR Creationism.

You only want to waste our time.

Are you done (not) defending your numbers? That's what this thread is about. Remember?

Oh, and answer this:
Yesterday Evolution (not even abiogenesis) wanted to make you belive that the crudest simple elements were transformed into the intrincate complex living cells...
Today it wants to make you believe that the crudest of living things and cells were transformed into intricate complex beings...

I see your reasoning is evolving.
Or better yet: go away.
You have nothing to say, and your questions are a joke.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 11:17 PM on March 26, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

C'mon Wisp, what is it exactly that causes all of the components of the eye and brain to develop into said components and work together to give sight ?
What was the thing that realized, "Hey we have no sight so lets form into working parts and create something complex like sight"  I'm baffled.



 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 7:48 PM on March 27, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You don't know anything about Creationism or Evolution. You're perfectly innocent, aren't you?

I'd hate to be the one that took that innocence away.

Do it yourself with Wikipedia. I won't be responsible for that.

Then come back and try to ask some meaningful questions. Start by something simple. Something whose answer you can grasp, so you need to ask it only once, and never again.

And learn something about what you supposedly believe. So you too can provide some answers.

You don't even know if you're supposed to believe that bacteria are "crude" or "complex".



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 9:06 PM on March 27, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Why don't you the expert  humor me and do tell what is it exactly that causes unorganized cells to start organizing with a plan in mind to form an eye that works.
I cannot be more simpler than that!

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 08:37 AM on March 28, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Why don't you the expert  humor me and do tell what is it exactly that causes unorganized cells to start organizing
I smelled a good question up until here...
with a plan in mind to form an eye that works.
Haha! That never happened. Keep trying.
If you don't care about creationism, that's ok. But if you care about Evolution, learn first what we say that happened, and then ask how it happened.
We post almost every day.
Check what we say, and discuss it.
Stop imagining we say stuff.
I cannot be more simpler than that!
Try simpler.
Like "How could a land mammal transform into a whale?"
If you ask "Why did a land mammal decide to have whales for offspring?", you lost.

There has never been any decisions in Evolution. Until now, that humans are capable of taking Evolution in their own hands. But that's another subject.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 08:58 AM on March 28, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

So what's the friggin answer? How do unorganized cells form into an extremely organized complex organ like the eye(among MANY others). Let me guess, it just happened, right?

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 09:12 AM on March 28, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

So what's the friggin answer?
To your previous friggin question? There's none. Yo didn't make a valid one.
How do unorganized cells form into an extremely organized complex organ like the eye(among MANY others).
YESSSS!!! Congratulations, gluteus, you've managed to utter a valid question.

If you say "like the eye" i guess i should be much more general.
You also didn't specify like WHAT eye (eyes have evolved independently several times, perhaps up to 100 times).

You know what? I'll give you a link.
If you're interested, read it. It's not that long.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 09:27 AM on March 28, 2009 | IP
waterboy

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Gluteous

Gluteous
So what's the friggin answer? How do unorganized cells form into an extremely organized complex organ like the eye(among MANY others). Let me guess, it just happened, right?[\quote]

You are trying to make it sound very hard... right?

Look at how every embryo develops from a few undifferentiated cells into a complex organism WITH EYES. Its happening around us every day... all the time. Its mind-boggling... yes!  Do we really understand every little aspect of? ... NO!   BUT ITS TRUE.
However limited our understanding of the process...  however impossible it might seem to us that such a thing could happen... it DOES happen.
Take any human embryo after just the first few cell divisions. Pick out any one of the cells.. it doesnt matter which one.  Reimplant it and it will still grow into a healthy adult.
Complexity is hard to understand... by definition. But being complex or hard to understand doesnt make a thing impossible.


-------
Charis kai Eirene
 


Posts: 218 | Posted: 7:59 PM on March 28, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I often consult Wikipedia as is useful for sure. But I think you are missing my point. I am only using the eye as an example. What I am getting at is that since we arrived at the eye which like many other organs, is paramountly useful to our survival, what was the impetus that foresaw the need to even develop an eye?


 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 6:16 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

None whatsoever.


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 7:12 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

So You admit that "evolution" does not have any goals in mind yet it provides amazing multitudes of solutions. So what you could do is tell me how we arrived at the amazing organs that we have that are both necessary for life and chockful of amenities that enhance our quality of life.

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 8:06 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Offspring that have genetic advantages tend to reproduce more that the others of their species.


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 8:11 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

But how so, remember, evolution is "blind".

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 8:26 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Mutations may be random, but natural selection is not.


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 8:28 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

So is it random that we have our extremely complex eyes and other organs that work in harmony and give us the quality of life we have?

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 8:36 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

That's not what I said is it?


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 8:45 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

gluteus
So You admit that "evolution" does not have any goals in mind yet it provides amazing multitudes of solutions.
"Admit"???? Why of course! That's what Evolution is all about!

Do YOU admit it?
So what you could do is tell me how we arrived at the amazing organs that we have that are both necessary for life and chockful of amenities that enhance our quality of life.
Why do you always have to add stuff?

There are no organs that are necessary for life.

Is it so hard to make valid questions?

Look, pay attention:
How many elephants were carried into Noah's ark?

There. Simple. Concise. And you won't answer it.

Apoapsis
Offspring that have genetic advantages tend to reproduce more that the others of their species.
But how so, remember, evolution is "blind".
How? Easy. No need for "sight".

Those few (VERY FEW) with an advantage have more offspring. So the advantageous new mutations get passed.

Let me tell you a story:
Once upon a time one of our ancestors had a mutation that made him (it) allergic to the bite of the mosquito.
He was very sad. =(

Whenever there were mosquitoes around, he had to go away.

They all laughed at him. "Hahaha", they said.

But it turns out that most of the mockers died of malaria.

But our hero had many children, who run from mosquitoes.

And they lived happily ever after.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 8:47 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You guys are NOT answering my questions instead diverting. I am still puzzled as to how an extremely complex organ such as the eye developed randomly that gives us the sight we need and enjoy life with. RU saying this extreme complexity was random?

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 8:53 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

We ARE giving you the process.  Mutations are random.  In every generation a few mutations that express for an advantage will be selected for, some that are hidden make no difference.  Over many generations the advantages accumulate.


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 8:58 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Ok,

this brings me back to a previous question I hinted at. What is the force/logic behind the mutations  "that express for an advantage"


 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 9:02 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

But how so, remember, evolution is "blind".
We never forget it. It's you who forgets it, and ask silly questions like "What's the force who decided to give us eyes?".

You guys are NOT answering my questions instead diverting.
You're not making valid questions.

I made a perfectly valid one, and you don't answer.

Why should i answer your silly ones?

I'll try to make a silly question so you get it:
When did God decide to leave his beard long?

You don't have to answer such a stupid question (well, you feel that you don't even have to answer the good ones, so...).

I am still puzzled as to how an extremely complex organ such as the eye developed randomly that gives us the sight we need and enjoy life with.
Hahaha! You see? As silly as it gets.

You just put too much emotion into it. So you can't see clearly.

RU saying this extreme complexity was random?
Hahahaha!
No!

Apoapsis
Mutations may be random, but natural selection is not.


You see?

You don't even read.

Go away.

Go pray for our souls.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 9:06 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I think you are diverting because you do not have an answer to my question. I am still puzzled and that is because you have refused to answer.  What the hell is silly about asking the following....?

"What is the force/logic behind the mutations  "that express for an advantage"
 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 9:09 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

We ARE giving you the process.  Mutations are random.  In every generation a few mutations that express for an advantage will be selected for, some that are hidden make no difference.  Over many generations the advantages accumulate.
Ok,
Ok???
this brings me back to a previous question I hinted at. What is the force/logic behind the mutations  "that express for an advantage"
I think gluteus has a learning disability.

NATURAL SELECTION!!



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 9:10 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

What the hell is silly about asking the following....?

"What is the force/logic behind the mutations  "that express for an advantage"
That's the first time you ask that.

It's not expressed correctly, but it's a valid question, even if we've told you a thousand times.

I'll answer again: Natural selection.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 9:11 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Going in circles now... and stop with the @sshole remarks about learning disability.

So now I ask ....
What is the force and logic that cause the following...

" Over many generations the advantages accumulate."

The advantages accumulate? How is this possible? just randomness?




 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 9:16 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Natural selection tends to remove the disadvantages.  It's that simple.


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 9:27 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Going in circles now...
You are.
and stop with the @sshole remarks about learning disability.
Aw, man... I'm sorry... I don't want to make you feel bad, but... You just don't learn!

I don't even know if you're really trying, or if you're mocking us.
So now I ask ....
What is the force and logic that cause the following...

" Over many generations the advantages accumulate."
You see??

NAAATURAAAL SEEELEEECTIOOON!!

The advantages accumulate? How is this possible? just randomness?
...

Natural selection is not random.

There's no circle here! It's you!



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 9:29 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I just cannot get thru to you fellas. I am trying to bottomline it and you keep feeding me lines that are unsatisfactory.

"Natural selection tends to remove the disadvantages"

really, how does it do that, I  know NATURAL SELECTION !!!

but this does not satisfy me i n the least. WTF is the brain behind "removing the disadvantages" We get a complex eye, brain and an incredible body that can heal itself this is just effing randomness?   GET REAL !!!

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 9:34 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from gluteus_maximus at 9:34 PM on March 29, 2009 :
I just cannot get thru to you fellas. I am trying to bottomline it and you keep feeding me lines that are unsatisfactory.

"Natural selection tends to remove the disadvantages"

really, how does it do that, I  know NATURAL SELECTION !!!

but this does not satisfy me i n the least. WTF is the brain behind "removing the disadvantages" We get a complex eye, brain and an incredible body that can heal itself this is just effing randomness?   GET REAL !!!




Tough


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 9:40 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

WTF is the brain behind "removing the disadvantages"
You see? Another invalid question...

Man, this is tiresome. Watch your words. You should already know that.

I can't answer that. Well, the answer is simply "none". That's all. And i've given you that answer plenty of times. You just don't like it.

really, how does it do that, I  know NATURAL SELECTION !!!
Pay a lot of attention here (this is what it's all about):
Differential survival/reproduction rates.

Now think it over. That's all there is to it.

We get a complex eye, brain and an incredible body that can heal itself this is just effing randomness?
Leave that strawman.

Have you not learned by now that strawmen don't work here?

My goodnes, man... Learn something!!!
Give us a hint that something sticks in your brain!!



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 9:41 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

And he even says that we're diverting!!

This guy is amazing...

gluteus, what's your story?

Stop asking for ours, because you don't learn it. But have you even learned yours?

How and when did parasites appear?


(Edited by wisp 3/29/2009 at 9:48 PM).


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 9:44 PM on March 29, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I do not get what u mean by strawman, perhaps something that doesn't hold up?

Let me put it another way.

The fact that we arrive at complex eyes to see and a complex blood circulatory system, for example, are the results of what? You say "natural selection" which you say is blind. So we arrive at these things which are necessary for life all without any planning right? You believe that?

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 4:53 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I do not get what u mean by strawman, perhaps something that doesn't hold up?
Oh... You should have asked earlier.

A strawman is a logical fallacy.
It's when i pretend that you said something, and then i proceed to refute it, declaring myself the winner, even when you never said that.

Let me show you:
"Creationism says that God is a very tall guy with a white beard who lives in the sky surrounded by angels. Astronauts have been up there and have reported no big guy with a white beard, so creationism is wrong."

That's a strawman.

Your strawman is saying that we claim that randomness can build up complex systems, including life.
Nobody said that.

Let me put it another way.
Yeah, like this one: "I won't answer your questions".

At least be honest and say so.
You don't know about Evolution OR creationism. Do you?

It's ok not to care. Really.
It's not ok to pretend that you do, and waste people's time asking questions whose answer you don't care about.

The fact that we arrive at complex eyes to see and a complex blood circulatory system, for example, are the results of what? You say "natural selection" which you say is blind. So we arrive at these things which are necessary for life all without any planning right? You believe that?
aaalmost right...

You always add something that we DON'T say.

In this case is that the blood circulatory system is necessary for life.

Bacteria have none, so no. It's not necessary for life.

It is necessary for YOUR life. But nobody says that you got to this point with no blood circulatory system, and then you evolved one.

About randomness: Evolution is playing cards. It has many games at once. It periodically gets some new cards. Most of them are useless, and are discarded. Every once in a while it gets a card that's good for it's game. And it uses it. Because it gives that hand an edge.

Get it?

Perhaps you don't believe it. But at least do you get it?

Every card has been random at least once. But Evolution is not playing at random. It uses natural selection to select useful cards.

So, be honest and take this back:
We get a complex eye, brain and an incredible body that can heal itself this is just effing randomness?   GET REAL !!!



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 6:04 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Could something this complex form without planning?




-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 7:34 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

So the definition of strawman states that I am putting words in your mouth. Ok got it.  So if I understand, you are not invoking randomness in the acts of evolution right?

You said  
"Every once in a while it gets a card that's good for it's game. And it uses it. Because it gives that hand an edge.
So it uses it BECAUSE it gives that hand an edge? Is this what you are saying? Would it use it if it DIDN'T give it an edge?


 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 9:00 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from gluteus_maximus at 9:00 PM on March 30, 2009 :
So the definition of strawman states that I am putting words in your mouth. Ok got it.  So if I understand, you are not invoking randomness in the acts of evolution right?


Did you read this?

Quote from Apoapsis at 8:58 PM on March 29, 2009 :
We ARE giving you the process.  Mutations are random.  In every generation a few mutations that express for an advantage will be selected for, some that are hidden make no difference.  Over many generations the advantages accumulate.









-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 9:06 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

ok, so you are invoking randomness.

But would it use it if it DIDN'T give it an edge?

(Edited by gluteus_maximus 3/30/2009 at 9:16 PM).
 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 9:13 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from Apoapsis at 9:27 PM on March 29, 2009 :
Natural selection tends to remove the disadvantages.  It's that simple.




-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 9:32 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"Natural selection tends to remove the disadvantages.  It's that simple."

Hmmm... how does natural selection to do this?

 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 9:36 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from wisp at 9:41 PM on March 29, 2009 :
Pay a lot of attention here (this is what it's all about):
Differential survival/reproduction rates.

Now think it over. That's all there is to it.






-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 9:51 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

So the definition of strawman states that I am putting words in your mouth. Ok got it.
Nice!
So if I understand, you are not invoking randomness in the acts of evolution right?
Thanks for asking. That's not exactly right. It's natural selection the one that's not random.
Mutations are.

There are other random elements involved. Perhaps there has been  a mutant human who was inmune to all diseases, and a tree fell on him. Too bad.

You said  
"Every once in a while it gets a card that's good for it's game. And it uses it. Because it gives that hand an edge.
So it uses it BECAUSE it gives that hand an edge?
Exactly. Sharp teeth in cows are no good.
Is this what you are saying? Would it use it if it DIDN'T give it an edge?
If it doesn't hurt, it doesn't need to be discarded. Like the mutation for blue eyes.
If blue eyes are sexy, then it's an edge.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:26 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Why don't you answer questions?


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:40 PM on March 30, 2009 | IP
gluteus_maximus

|     |       Report Post



Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

May I ask the questions until I get your final stance on the matter?  I am the un-informed one doubting evolution so for the sake of it it's encumbent for you to defend here. So my next question is, if mutations are random and happen by chance, how do they produce higher levels of organization and complexity w/out intelligent purpose?

(Edited by gluteus_maximus 3/31/2009 at 5:48 PM).

(Edited by gluteus_maximus 3/31/2009 at 8:20 PM).
 


Posts: 151 | Posted: 5:47 PM on March 31, 2009 | IP
    
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 ... 7 8 ... 29 30 ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.