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     Creationism: No respect

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Demon38

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Interesting article.  It puts to rest the claim by some creationists that christianity and evolution are incompatible.  From here:
Conference

"Organizers of the five-day conference at the Pontifical Gregorian University said Thursday that they barred intelligent design proponents because they wanted an intellectually rigorous conference on science, theology and philosophy to mark the 150th anniversary of Charles Darwin's "The Origin of Species." "

And from the same site:

"We think that it's not a scientific perspective, nor a theological or philosophical one," said the Rev. Marc Leclerc, the conference director and a professor of philosophy of nature at the Gregorian. "This makes a dialogue very difficult, maybe impossible."

And finally:

"Vatican teaching holds that Roman Catholicism and evolutionary theory are not necessarily at odds. The church under Benedict has been trying to stress that, along with its overall belief that there is no incompatibility between faith and reason.
Pope John Paul II articulated the church's position most clearly in a 1996 address to the Pontifical Academy for Sciences, saying the theory of evolution is "more than a hypothesis." "

The worlds largest group of christians accept evolution as a fact.  They realize that to deny reality turns away more followers than it brings in.


 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 03:02 AM on March 6, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Biblical myths are meant to be believed. They pay attention to genealogies, and materials (to make things like the ark and the tower of Babel) to give it more realism.

If you don't buy them, well, congratulations. But in what sense are you a Christian?

What's the limit?

-I'm a christian.
-Good! Me too!
-But i don't believe Mary was a virgin.
-Me neither. I don't even believe that Jesus existed.

The worlds largest group of christians accept evolution as a fact.  They realize that to deny reality turns away more followers than it brings in.
Yeah, unfortunately they have realized.

Every religion should be taken to its extreme. And if it dies, then it wasn't good.

Most Christian branches have more patches than Microsoft Windows.

If your religion has to be softened, patched, adapted... Well, you better give it back, for it's faulty.

Hum... Except for Buddhism, perhaps. A good Buddhist can also be a Christian. A good Christian cannot be a Buddhist.

Buddhism is essentially tolerant, and recognizes that it's just one of many paths. So you can't be a Buddhist fundy.

Taoism would also be hard to take to any extreme, because it predicts that when you reach an extreme you bounce back to the other.

Interesting article.  It puts to rest the claim by some creationists that christianity and evolution are incompatible.
How? By calling themselves "christians"?

Anyone can do that (and they do), no matter what they believe. The more you stretch it, the less it means.

Soon we'll have atheist christians.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 07:10 AM on March 6, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

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You don;t have to wait:
Atheists for Jesus


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 08:12 AM on March 6, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Hahaha!! That's cool!!

I like it because it's not religious.

Sometimes i pity Jesus... What they did with his teachings...



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:26 AM on March 6, 2009 | IP
Demon38

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How? By calling themselves "christians"?

Anyone can do that (and they do), no matter what they believe. The more you stretch it, the less it means.

Soon we'll have atheist christians.


Since the Catholics are the original christians, I'd say they weren't stretching anything, it's the creationists who are misinterpreting the the teachings of Jesus.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:36 PM on March 6, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Yes, they are, but they have a history of dealing with power that has little to do with Jesus.

And they too say that they believe in the Bible.

Jesus was the Christ because prophecies in the old testament said so (allegedly).

So if the old testament is not true they have no foundation for their religion.

If the ark is not true, why would some prophesies about a messiah?



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 8:49 PM on March 6, 2009 | IP
Yehren

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Many evolutionary scientists, like Dobzhansky, Ayala, and Miller are Christians.


 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 09:24 AM on March 28, 2009 | IP
wisp

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a) hey believe in the ear impregnation and virgin birth stuff.

b) They follow Jesus' example (they go from town to town spreading the word, perhaps performing miracles, they don't bury their dead, they love their enemies, they don't check out nice pieces of ass).

c) None of the above.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:31 AM on March 28, 2009 | IP
Yehren

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They see Jesus as Lord and God, and trust in Him.

I do too, BTW.   Can we still be friends?
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 10:21 PM on March 31, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Eek! Haha!

They see Jesus as Lord and God,
God is infinite. How can Jesus be God? What would that mean? That a little bit of God was in him? That's true about any of us.

As for the "lord" part, i have no clue. I don't know what that means.
and trust in Him.
Do you trust that he was right when he said you shouldn't bury your dead, look at nice pieces of ass, divorce, etc?
I do too, BTW.   Can we still be friends?
I have gay friends. Can we still be friends?

If you say that you trust him but don't follow his advice or example, and that you believe that he's God, etc...

Well, what about a person like this:
"Jesus is the Lord and God. I trust him (even if he said that he'd come back quickly and 2k years have passed). He's always right. But i don't like following his advice or example. Killing persons is just too much fun.
I trust that he'll send me to Hell, but i'm having lots of fun in the meantime."

Is that person a christian?

If he is not, then it seems like you're missing some elements.

I admire Jesus. But saying that he was God makes no sense to me.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:39 PM on March 31, 2009 | IP
wisp

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I want to say that i'm glad we can have your presence in this forum. Even if i'll try to convince you to drop christianity, and that according to your Bible you should kill me for that (and Jesus said that the old law was ok).


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:45 PM on March 31, 2009 | IP
Yehren

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I want to say that i'm glad we can have your presence in this forum. Even if i'll try to convince you to drop christianity, and that according to your Bible you should kill me for that (and Jesus said that the old law was ok).


Actually, the parable of the Good Samaritan shows that Jesus was more concerned with one's behavior toward one's fellow man than with theology.

He told His followers that they should emulate a heretic with compassion, in preference to a theologically correct Levite without compassion.

I have gay friends. Can we still be friends?

My church says that while homosexuality is intrinsically disordered and engaging in homosexuality is a sin, we should welcome homosexuals into our congregations and avoid any unjust discrimination against them.   Our churches are for sinners, not for perfect people.



(Edited by Yehren 4/2/2009 at 08:22 AM).
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 08:19 AM on April 2, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Ok, that's cool (for a christian faith, and even if the concept of 'sin' is very stupid and void, and hurts a lot of people).

"We welcome you!
BTW, don't you dare being happy while they stuff your ass, you disgusting sinner!
We'll still be nice to you by accepting your gay money."

Still, quite cool.

Actually, the parable of the Good Samaritan shows that Jesus was more concerned with one's behavior toward one's fellow man than with theology.

He told His followers that they should emulate a heretic with compassion, in preference to a theologically correct Levite without compassion.
I know that. That's why i admire Jesus, and believe that Mathew 4:19 (if i remember correctly, for i'm posting from my pocket PC and don't feel like googling) is a lie (from Mathew or someone else).
But i thought you can't question the gospels.

You haven't addressed most of my questions and comments.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 2:04 PM on April 2, 2009 | IP
Yehren

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You haven't addressed most of my questions and comments.


Let's take a look.   Christians who enjoy killing or other things they aren't supposed to do , are simply not being very good Christians.   Christians still sin; they just believe in God.   Which is why a sensible Christian doesn't look down on atheists.  Many of them are better Christians than many who accept God.  (Which was the point Jesus was making about the good Samaritan)

As far as homosexuals go, the church recognizes that we sin because we enjoy it in some way.  So the same sort of thing applies to all the rest of us.   We each have our own crosses to bear, but homosexuals have a particularly bad one because many people fear and hate them.  This is something the Church forbids us to do.   Homosexuals are sinners like the rest of us.

"Sin", BTW, means something like "missing the mark" in the Greek; it's about falling short of the life we are called to live.  It's not a crime that gets punished, but a way we harm ourselves.

As Mother Theresa observed, we all have a Hitler within us.   Our job is to live that in us which is of God, as you mentioned.

Do I take everything in the Bible as a literal statement?  No, and I don't know any other Christian who does, either.   We differ mostly in how much of it we think is literal and how much of it is figurative.

May that little bit of God inside you grow and flourish.   From your concern for ethical treatment of the oppressed, my guess is that it is doing just that.  
 


Posts: 84 | Posted: 12:36 PM on April 4, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Christians who enjoy killing or other things they aren't supposed to do , are simply not being very good Christians.
But still Cristians, right?
I have no problem with that answer. I just wanted one.
I'm used to see christians dodge questions.

I often ask questions to show the other guy that it's him who has problems with the answer (the dodge demonstrates just that).

I like my Christians fundies. I don't like them reasonable and moderate like you.

It's people like you the reason why Cristianism survives and evolves. That's what saves it. And in my opinion it's not worth saving. It's like Microsoft Windows releasing patches.

Christians still sin; they just believe in God.
Not 'just'. They also trust Jesus and believe that he's Lord and God

What does this mean?

Which is why a sensible Christian doesn't look down on atheists.  Many of them are better Christians than many who accept God.  (Which was the point Jesus was making about the good Samaritan)
Yeah, that's what i observe.

As far as homosexuals go, the church recognizes that we sin because we enjoy it in some way.  So the same sort of thing applies to all the rest of us.
Except that heterosexuals can feel ok while having sex, which is one of our strongest urges.

We each have our own crosses to bear, but homosexuals have a particularly bad one because many people fear and hate them.
And Christianism doesn't help.
This is something the Church forbids us to do.
Why do you let them tell you what to do?
That's ok for people who can't think for themselves.
My son is 3 years old. He can't yet understand why he's not supposed to open the door when someone knocks. He needs  to trust and obey me, for now. Some day he won't have to. And that would be a good day.
Homosexuals are sinners like the rest of us.
I beg to disagree. The only reason why homosexuality would be sinful (whatever you mean by that) is because of the Bible.
Heterosexuality is advised by most popular religions. The reason is simple: they are self replicators. Those who advise heterosexuality get to infect more carriers, and that makes them more popular.

Hum... Now that i think about it, kin selection must have played some rol in homophobia (my genes don't care about me particularly, but about themselves, about making copies, so making me put pressure in my brothers -50% of my genes each- gives them more copies).
Any form of homofobia, paradoxically, gives homosexual genes more copies.
"Sin", BTW, means something like "missing the mark" in the Greek;
Yeah, and the English word for that is 'mistake'.
it's about falling short of the life we are called to live.
Called? By what? Does it call other animals too?
It's not a crime that gets punished, but a way we harm ourselves.
That sounds nice. Except that homosexuality doesn't harm, and calling it a 'sin' does.
Besides the regular (consensual, of course) sense of the word 'sin' is 'disobeyance of God's laws, as stated in the Bible'.

You have adapted Christian concepts to make them mean almost reasonable things. But we already have reasonable concepts.

Perhaps you do the same with the concept of 'God'.
I can't point fingers here. I use the word 'God' meaning something quite different from the traditional personal supernatural creator.
Perhaps i shouldn't use that word. But the traditional 'God' is a tiny human representation of my infinite 'God'. The same with 'Love' (which is not a feeling but a universal force, a form of knowledge, and an aspect of God).

As Mother Theresa observed, we all have a Hitler within us. Our job is to live that in us which is of God, as you mentioned.
I agree. And make it grow, if possible.
Do I take everything in the Bible as a literal statement?  No, and I don't know any other Christian who does, either.
True.
We differ mostly in how much of it we think is literal and how much of it is figurative.
True.

Do you believe that the Bible is a good moral guide?
If not, what is it good for?
May that little bit of God inside you grow and flourish.
Why thank you! That's the nicest wish!
I sincerely wish the same for you.
I don't believe that you need christianity for that though (but perhaps some do).



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 6:29 PM on April 4, 2009 | IP
    
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