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EMyers

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Were the Jews recipients of Divine Truth or just the most scientifically advanced nation of their time?

AD 1520 the introduction of the compass and improved sailing vessels made possible the voyages of Columbus, Magellan, etc... finally bringing general acceptance of the fact that the earth is spherical.  Prior to this the earth was thought to be flat.

745ish BC "It is He that sitteth above the circle (Hebrew word Khug refers to a sphere) of the earth."  Isaiah 40:22 How did they know?


AD 1851 Actual daily rotation of the earth demonstrated with pendulum by Leon Foucault in Paris.  Copernicus had first explained it back in AD 1543 but he was shunned.  Prior to this the earth was thought to be still, and the sun rotated around us (hence sunrise and sunset).

2000 B.C. "Have you ever in your life commanded the morning, and caused the dawn to know it's place... It is changed (Hebrew means "changed by turning") like clay under the seal" Job 38:12-14a How did Job know the earth was turning?


AD 1687  Invention of telescope by Hans Lippershey gave ultimate tool that would unlock the secrets of our earth's position in space.  In succeeding years the devolpment of the telescope led Isaac Newton to discover that the earth's weight is not supported, but rather, is supsended in its orbit, the centrifugal force exerted by rotation around the sun being balanced by gravitationa attraction to the sun... Law of Universal Gravitation.  Prior to this the earth was thought to be supported or fixed in the universe.

2000 BC "He hangs the earth on nothing" Job 26:7  Why did they think it was suspended while everyone else thought it was fixed?


AD 1917 Albert Einstein wrote his General Theory of Relativity in which he conceived the universe as infinite, unbounded, and static.
Prior to this the universe was thought to be of a fixed, measurable size.

628 BC "Thus says the Lord, If the heavens above can be measured.... then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel" Jeremiah 31:37
Why did they think it was immeasurable when everyone else was trying to measure it?

AD 1608 Galileo used the telescope and was the first to discover that there were so many stars that he announced them innumerable.  We are still finding new stars.  Prior to this the stars were thought to number around 3000 (Hipparchus and Ptolemy both used this number).

625 BC "As the host of heaven cannot be counted, and the sand of the sea cannot be measured" Jeremiah 33:22 How could they know it couldn't be counted?  Other nations already had numbers in mind.


AD 1942 Grote Raber tried to determine whether stars emit sound (for the second time) and came up (again) with inconclusive results.  The same year the U.S. Army scientists testing radar equipment (to detect German aircraft) received a noise so high they could not be operated.  The problem was traced to the activities of a sunspot.  It is now known that radio waves that enter our atmosphere vary from .8 centimeters to 17 meters.. inaudible to the human ear.

2000 BC "The morning stars sang (Hebrew ranan - emmiting loud creak, shrill, or strenuous sound) together" Job 38:7
How did Job know it made a sound when it couldn't be heard by the human ear?


AD 1687 Issac Newton led the world to acknowledge that all heavenly bodies are regulated by "celestial mechanics".  Prior to this it was thought that the movements of the stars, etc. were irregular.

2000 BC "Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?" Job 38:33
Why did Job think their were ordinances governing the heavens when other nations thought it was random?


AD 1859 Spectro-telescope was used to analyze starlight, proving that stars are their own source of light and equivalent to our sun.  Prior to this they were thought to reflect light, as the moon and planets.

1491 BC "And God made the two great lights; the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. And God placed them in the expanses of the heavens to give light on the earth" Genesis 1:16-17... The original manuscript does not include the words "he made" and "also".  It is added by the translator.  It should read "and the lesser light to govern the night, the stars" just to avoid anyone trying to say that Moses was referring to the moon.  Why did Moses think that starts made their own light when everyone else thought they just reflected it like the moon?


AD 1973 The Deep Sea Drilling Project funded by the National Science Foundation concluded (after 246 holes had been drilled) that the ocean floor was of a different geological origin than the continents and had never been dry land.  Prior to this it was assumed that the continents and ocean floor were of the same material . Also, chronomoters have proven that the continents rest in sockets some twenty to forty-five miles deep and that it would be impossible for the thin sheet that compromises the ocean floor to have caused a continental drift.  Previously it was thought that the shorelines were not fixed.

2000 BC "On what were its bases sunk?" Job 38:4-6
1033 BC "He set for the sea its boundary, so that the water should not transgress His command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth" Proverbs 8:29
Why did only the Jews believe that the shores were immobile and that and that the land had bases sunk into something?


AD 1885 Edward Suess (no not Dr) was one of the first geologists to publish a study based on the geologic framework of all countries.  His research let to the discovery that all land surfaces had been under water.

1491 BC "And the earth was formless and void...then God said, Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters...Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear" Genesis 1:2,6,9
1033 BC "Thou didst cover it with the deep as with a garment; the waters were standing above the mountains.  At Thy rebuke they flet; at the sound of Thy thunder they hurried away... Psalms104:6-9
The Jews knew that all land had been under water at one time.  Why was no one else aware of this?


AD 1855 Admiral Matthew Fountaine Maury charted the sailing lanes.  He embarked on this endeavor after his son had read from the Bible Psalms 8:8 "What ever passes through the paths of the sea" (1015 BC)  His textbook Physical Geography of the Sea was the first on modern oceanography and was based on nearly three thousand year old writing.


AD 1873 British ship Challenger was the first vessel to record an underwater trench or canyon (isolated depth of 4500 fathoms).  Prior to this the ocean floor was thought to be flat or rolling, not valleys and peaks.

1015 "The channels (canyon or crevasse) of the sea appeared,  the foundations of the world were laid bare" II Samual 22:16
Without proper equipment how did the Jews know that there were canyons and crevasses under the ocean depths?


AD 1945 Underwater volcanoes first discovered.  US Geological survey shows that water is released from the underwater volcanoes, fumaroles and hot springs at the rate of about 430 million tons per year.  

2000 BC "Have you entered into the springs of the sea? Job 38:16
1491 BC "All the fountains of the great deep burst open"  Genesis 7:11
Why were the Jews the only ones of their time to know about these fountains in the great deep?  or that there were springs in the seas?


350 BC Aristotle credited with being the first to comprehend the water vapor cycle that produces rain.  And even he thought this was only a localized event...

2000 BC "For He draws up the drops of water, they distil rain from the mist, which the clouds pour down, they drip on man abudantly" Job 36:27,28
1033 BC "All the rivers flow into the sea, yet the sea is not full.  To the place where the rivers flow, there they flow again" Ecclesiastes 1:7
How did the Jews know about this cycle so much earlier than everyone else?


AD 1643 Evangelista Torricelli invents the barometer establishing that the air (wind) has weight and measures 14.7 ppsi at sea level.  By AD 1940 (using aircraft and balloons) it was discovered that there is a basic pattern for air circulation.

2000 BC "When He imparted weight to the wind" Job 28:25
1033 BC "Blowing toward the south, then turning toward the north the wind continues turning along; and on its circular courses the wind returns" Ecclesiastes 1:6
How did they know that the wind had weight and that it followed on a course (jet stream, anyone?)


AD 1930 Charles Boys and Dr Karl McEachron discover that lightning develops only after "leaders" pass from the clouds to the earth creating an ionized path for the lightning bolt to ascend.  AD 1960 Cause and effect of electrical charges on cloud formation and rain discharges begin to be understood.

2000 BC "Who has cleft a channel for the flood, or a way for the thunderbolt; to bring rain on a land without people, on a desert without a man in it, to satisfy the waste and desolate land, and to make seeds of grass to sprout?" Job 38:25,27
How did they know that there was a channel way for the thunderbolt to travel through?


AD 1841 Mayer formulates the Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy.  All energy in the universe remains constant, but one form may be converted into another.  Companion to this, the Law of Mass Covservation, states that although matter can change in size, shape, form, etc... the total mass cannot change.  Prior to this the universe was considered to continuall evolving with both "spontaneous generation" and dissappearance of things into nothingness.

1451 BC "Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts (Hebrew kal tsbaah = everything in them)" Genesis 2:1,2
AD 63 "The works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3
Self-explanatory...


AD 1850 Law of Entropy states that in any energy transfer or change, although the total amount of energy remains unchanged, the amount of useful and available energy decreases.  In other words, things wear out and decay.

745 BC "Lift up your eyes to the sky, then look to the earth beneah; for the sky will vanish like smoke, and the earth will wear out like a garment, and its inhabitants will die in like manner" Isaiah 51:6
Ditto...


AD 1895 Wilhelm Conrad Roentgen discovered X-ray and the beginning of exploration into unsee elements begins.  Prior to this all matter was thought to have been built from visible things.

AD 63 "By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which were visible" Hebrews 11:3
What made the Jews think that the world was composed of invisible things?  No one else thought so.


AD 1666 Isaac Newton first demonstrates that light can be parted.

2000 BC "Where is the way to the dwelling of light; and darkness, where is it parted" Job 38:19
"Where is the way that the light is divided?" Job 38:24
How did they know that light could be divided?


AD 1740 Carolus Linnaeus propounded the method and scheme of classification that all subsequent one have been based upon.  3 kingdoms of natural science: mineral, vegetable, animal...

1491 BC (I'm not typing this whole thing, look it up )
Genesis 1:1-10 Origin of minerals...
Genesis 1:11-13 Origin of vegetables...
Genesis 1:20-31 Origin of animals...
Odd how 3000 years earlier the Jews divided creation along the same lines...


AD 1880 Establishment of the equality of the female ovum with the male spermatozoon, ending the prolonged battle between spermists and ovarists.  Prior to this (with the exception of da Vinci in AD1451, who was basically ignored on this point) it was assumed that the male of the species had the seed of propagation.

1491 BC "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed" Genesis 3:15 ok, woman has the seed....
AD 63 "And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him" Hebrews 7:9-10 ok, man has the seed... they must both have it...and it another1600 or so years, scientists will "discover" it.


AD 1865 Mendel's Law of Heredity...

1491 BC "God said, 'Let the earth bring forth living creatures after thei kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind' Genesis 1:24
Well, duh?  What took Mendel so long?


AD 1626 Francesco Redi disproves spontaneous generation in insects.  AD 1862 Louis Pasteur won prize for project on spontaneous generation, disproving it.  Can anyone say Law of Biogenesis?

"God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed, after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind" Genesis 1:21
What, you mean we didn't spontaenously generate?  Oh yea, Law of Biogenesis.


AD 1676 Leeuwenhoek created a lense that was capable of magnifying objets up to 270 times.  While looking at a drop of rain he discovered "little animals" in the rain water.

1491 BC "The waters teem with swarms of living creatures (Hebrew sherets [creatures] is "a rapidly multiplying active mass of minute animals")  How did Moses know about this before the microscope?


AD 1930 Electron microscope (invented by Max Knott and Ernst Ruska) leads to debunking of the "common cell theory".

AD 56 "All flesh is not the same flesh; but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish" I Corinthians 15:39  How did Paul know this almost two thousand years beforehand?


AD 1900s Importance of blood as the biological mechanism of the body finally takes off.  Discovery that temperature control, waste removal, and transportation of water, food, and regulators to the cells of all parts of the body by blood happens in these years.  Prior to this the blood was thought to carry diseases, not life (blood letting anyone?)  Perhaps they should've listed to William Harvey back in 1616 (alas, not many did).  Many of these discoveries could've been made centuries earlier...

1491 BC "The life (Hebrew "that which makes it possible fro an animal to have vitatlity) of the flesh is in the blood" Leveticus 17:11
What did Moses know that the rest of the world didn't?


AD 1775 There were considered to be five distinct orignal races (based on Johann Friedrich Blumenback's studies) up until this time.  Changes in thought start to occur.
AD 1900 Karl Landsteiner discovers that all human blood has a common base - plasma.  There are four types of plasma and studies of all races show that there is an almost equal proportion of these types in all humans.
AD 1985 DNA studies show that all women have one set of genes in common.  Also, all men have one common DNA Y sex gene.  Common genes, mean what?  Say it together... common ancestors.  Thank you.

AD 63 "He made of ONE every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth" Acts 17:26
Luke (quoting Paul) got it right 1900 years earlier.  Wasn't anyone reading this book in the interim?


Let's look at the history of sanitation...

Leviticus 11:32... (on animals) "Anything on which one of them may fall when they are dead, becomes unclean..."
Leviticus 7:19 "Also, the flesh that touches anything unclean shall not be eaten"  
Leviticus 7:26 "And you are not to eat any blood, either of bird or animal"
Deuteronomy 23:12-13 "You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there, and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement"
Hmm, maybe they knew something about germs?  Nah, that wasn't discovered yet...

Let's look at what to do when someone is sick...
Leviticus 13:14-17 But whenever raw flesh appears on him, he shall be unclean.  And the priest shall look at the raw flesh, and shall pronounce him unlcean; the raw flesh is unclean, it is leprosy.  Or if the raw flesh turns again and is changed to white, then shall he come to the priest, and the priest shall look at him and behold, if the infection has turned to white, then the priest shall pronounce clean him who has the infection; he is clean"
Leviticus 13:45-46 "As for the leper who has the infection, his clothes shall be torn, and the hair of his head shall be uncovered, and he shall cover his mustache and cry Unclean! Unclean!  He shall remain unclean all the days during which he has the infection; he is unclean.  He shall live alone; his dwelling shall be outside the camp."
Leviticus 13:52 "So he shall burn the garment, whether the warp of the woof, in wool or linen, or any article of elather in which the mark occurs, for it is a leprous malignancy; it shall be burned in fire."
Leviticus 14;8,9 "The one to be cleansed shall then wash his clothes and shave off all his hair, and bathe in water and be clean.  Now afterward, he may enter the camp, but he shall stay outside his tent for seven days.  And it will be on the seventh day that he shall shave off all his hair: he shall shave his head and his beard and his eyebrows, even all his hair.  He shall then was his clothes and bathe his body in water and be clean.
Leviticus 14:39-47 Long, you can read it yourself.  The gist... If the mark still shows up in the house then the stones must be torn out and thrown away in an unclean place outside the city.  The house will be scraped down and the plaster discarded.  New stones and plaster will be used.  If it returns then it is malignant and the whole house torn down and anyone who had been in the house is unclean and shall wash his clothes.
Chapter 15 of Lev shows that they also knew that the disease could be shared by touching or spitting, or by touching anything they touched without rinsing their hands.  And that any earthen items should be broken and not used and wooden items should be rinsed.

What did the early Jews know of bacteria, quarantine, wearing of masks and communication of disease through touch and bodily discharges?  Why were they so advanced?

Take note of this... the Leprosy that spread through souther Europe in the 1700s was only stopped by enacting the instructions found in Leviticus.  Why hadn't anyone else figured this out since Moses' writings?

Now I could get onto the phrophesies contained in the Bible and how those have come true (unlike a few well-known charlatans out there), but I'm getting tired and I want to focus on actual scientifically proven facts that the Jews did not know of at the time they wrote of them.  If so, how did they?  Were they scientifically advanced and just kept it to themselves all these years?  Were they that much smarter than everyone else?  Or were they getting their information from someone who knew the answers?

Just askin...


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 1:43 PM on September 7, 2005 | IP
Demon38

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745ish BC "It is He that sitteth above the circle (Hebrew word Khug refers to a sphere) of the earth."  Isaiah 40:22 How did they know?

Where does it say "Khug", because this passage shows how the isaelites thought of the world, a flat surface with a large dome covering it, the vault of heaven.  It's amazing how creationists twist the truth!
From here:
FlatEarthin Bible
""There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe.  I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth.   This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of.  If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "

AD 1851 Actual daily rotation of the earth demonstrated with pendulum by Leon Foucault in Paris.  Copernicus had first explained it back in AD 1543 but he was shunned.  Prior to this the earth was thought to be still, and the sun rotated around us (hence sunrise and sunset).
2000 B.C. "Have you ever in your life commanded the morning, and caused the dawn to know it's place... It is changed (Hebrew means "changed by turning") like clay under the seal" Job 38:12-14a How did Job know the earth was turning?


Where in this passage does it say the earth turns?!?!  This is contradicted by numerous examples of the Bible saying the earth is fixed and immobile, unmoving on it's pillars...  

AD 1687  Invention of telescope by Hans Lippershey gave ultimate tool that would unlock the secrets of our earth's position in space.  In succeeding years the devolpment of the telescope led Isaac Newton to discover that the earth's weight is not supported, but rather, is supsended in its orbit, the centrifugal force exerted by rotation around the sun being balanced by gravitationa attraction to the sun... Law of Universal Gravitation.  Prior to this the earth was thought to be supported or fixed in the universe.
2000 BC "He hangs the earth on nothing" Job 26:7  Why did they think it was suspended while everyone else thought it was fixed?


As the rest of the Bible shows us, the writers thought the earth was fixed, that the sun moved around it.  And again, where in the passage you posted does it mention gravity, it says "hangs on nothing", well that's not true, gravity is not "nothing".  You are wrong.

AD 1917 Albert Einstein wrote his General Theory of Relativity in which he conceived the universe as infinite, unbounded, and static.
Prior to this the universe was thought to be of a fixed, measurable size.
628 BC "Thus says the Lord, If the heavens above can be measured.... then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel" Jeremiah 31:37
Why did they think it was immeasurable when everyone else was trying to measure it?"


Huh?  The writers of the Bible thought the heavens were a dome covering the earth, with water outside of the dome, remeber the doors and windows of heaven, pouring water out.
They thought the heavens immeasurable because they could conceive of no way to reach them.

AD 1608 Galileo used the telescope and was the first to discover that there were so many stars that he announced them innumerable.  We are still finding new stars.  Prior to this the stars were thought to number around 3000 (Hipparchus and Ptolemy both used this number).
625 BC "As the host of heaven cannot be counted, and the sand of the sea cannot be measured" Jeremiah 33:22 How could they know it couldn't be counted?  Other nations already had numbers in mind.


You're kidding right?  Ever look up at the sky at night, with no city lights blocking out parts of the sky...Ever try to count the stars you see, did you manage to count all of them?  They made this comparison because when they looked up in the night sky, THEY COULDN'T COUNT ALL THE STARS THEY SAW!  Simple as that.

AD 1942 Grote Raber tried to determine whether stars emit sound (for the second time) and came up (again) with inconclusive results.  The same year the U.S. Army scientists testing radar equipment (to detect German aircraft) received a noise so high they could not be operated.  The problem was traced to the activities of a sunspot.  It is now known that radio waves that enter our atmosphere vary from .8 centimeters to 17 meters.. inaudible to the human ear.
2000 BC "The morning stars sang (Hebrew ranan - emmiting loud creak, shrill, or strenuous sound) together" Job 38:7
How did Job know it made a sound when it couldn't be heard by the human ear?


They didn't know that!  It was simply a metaphor proclaiming the glory of God.  They didn't say "the morning stars emit something that can't be heard by human ears, they said they "sang", they didn't know jack about radio frequencies.

AD 1687 Issac Newton led the world to acknowledge that all heavenly bodies are regulated by "celestial mechanics".  Prior to this it was thought that the movements of the stars, etc. were irregular.
2000 BC "Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?" Job 38:33
Why did Job think their were ordinances governing the heavens when other nations thought it was random?


Boy, this is ridiculous!  Of course people of the time didn't think the movement of the stars and moon and sun were random, they planted their crops by the phases of the moon and navigated by the stars!  Your just lieing here in a vain attempt to make a point.  Well, guess what, POINT REFUTED.

AD 1859 Spectro-telescope was used to analyze starlight, proving that stars are their own source of light and equivalent to our sun.  Prior to this they were thought to reflect light, as the moon and planets.
1491 BC "And God made the two great lights; the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. And God placed them in the expanses of the heavens to give light on the earth" Genesis 1:16-17... The original manuscript does not include the words "he made" and "also".  It is added by the translator.  It should read "and the lesser light to govern the night, the stars" just to avoid anyone trying to say that Moses was referring to the moon.  Why did Moses think that starts made their own light when everyone else thought they just reflected it like the
moon?


First of all, no one at the time thought ANY celestial body reflected light.  The passage clearly says he made the TWO great lights, the sun for the day and the moon for the night, the writers of the bible thought the moon produced it's own light.  They were wrong.

2000 BC "On what were its bases sunk?" Job 38:4-6
1033 BC "He set for the sea its boundary, so that the water should not transgress His command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth" Proverbs 8:29
Why did only the Jews believe that the shores were immobile and that and that the land had bases sunk into something?


Because in their short life times the sea always stopped at the shore.  Poetic verse about their observations, no secret scientific foreknowledge.

1491 BC "And the earth was formless and void...then God said, Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters...Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear" Genesis 1:2,6,9
1033 BC "Thou didst cover it with the deep as with a garment; the waters were standing above the mountains.  At Thy rebuke they flet; at the sound of Thy thunder they hurried away... Psalms104:6-9
The Jews knew that all land had been under water at one time.  Why was no one else aware of this?


No, wrong.  The jews believed that the circle of the earth was covered by a great dome and outside of the dome was water.  In other words, they believed above the sky was water and below the circle of the earth was water.
From here:
DomeEarth
"The most striking feature of the Old Testament world is the "firmament," a solid dome which separates "the waters from the waters" (Gen. l:6). The Hebrew word translated in the Latin Vulgate as firmamentum is raqia' whose verb form means "to spread, stamp or beat out." The material beaten out is not directly specified, but both biblical and extrabiblical evidence suggests that it is metal."

this is really getting stupid.  Anyone can see that you don't understand what you're talking about.  It's all special pleading and your desire, against all reality and facts, that the Bible really is true and magic.  But it's not, it's a book written by primitive people and gives a primitive, myth ladden view of the world.  This view has since been proven wrong over the centuries.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 7:01 PM on September 13, 2005 | IP
EMyers

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Great.  You are using the opinions of idiots to prove what you think the Jews thought.  

Where does it say "Khug"  Hebrew text.

Where in this passage does it say the earth turns?!?!     Hebrew text.

And again, where in the passage you posted does it mention gravity, it says "hangs on nothing", well that's not true, gravity is not "nothing".  It doesn't mention gravity.  Most peoples at the time thought there was something "physical" supporting the earth.  Jews knew there wasn't.

The writers of the Bible thought the heavens were a dome covering the earth, with water outside of the dome, remeber the doors and windows of heaven, pouring water out.
 Ah, so you think they meant an actual physical door with a hinge and everything?  Do you think there is no water in the atmosphere?  

They made this comparison because when they looked up in the night sky, THEY COULDN'T COUNT ALL THE STARS THEY SAW!  Then why did other races think the stars could be numbered?

they didn't know jack about radio frequencies  Precisely my point.

Of course people of the time didn't think the movement of the stars and moon and sun were random  And yet astrology, which was en vogue at the time assumes that the movements of the stars are irregular.

The passage clearly says he made the TWO great lights, the sun for the day and the moon for the night, the writers of the bible thought the moon produced it's own light.  Go back to the original manuscripts which the translations were made from.  I thought I was clear.  Where does your confusion come from?

Because in their short life times the sea always stopped at the shore  Odd, I noticed you had nothing to say about the continental bases being sunk into sockets...

As for quoting DomeEarth... please... that's like me quoting Darwin to prove something about evolution.  

Thank you for proving my point.  The Jews were not scientists.  They knew nothing of radio waves, frequencies, microscopes, the physical make up of the earth.  They just got all the facts right somehow.  


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 10:35 PM on September 13, 2005 | IP
Demon38

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Great.  You are using the opinions of idiots to prove what you think the Jews thought.

What idiots?  name them and tell us all why they're idiots.

Where does it say "Khug"  Hebrew text.

From here:
FlatEarth
"They believe that the word "circle" could actually mean "sphere," since both are round, but they ignore Isaiah's use of a different word in another verse where he speaks of a "ball."  Here are the two verses:
To whom then will ye liken God? ....It is he that sitteth upon the circle (chuwg) of the earth (Isaiah 40:18-23
He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a BALL (duwr) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.  (Isaiah 22:18)
The Hebrew word used in scripture for "circle" in the verse above is chuwg.  If the Bible writer had meant for us to believe that "circle of the earth" meant that the earth was round, the writer would have used the Hebrew word for "ball," which is duwr.  The fact that Isaiah didn't use duwr shows that he wasn't trying to tell us the earth was like a ball.  
Furthermore, there exists a simple interpretation of "circle of the earth" which does not imply a spherical earth. On a hill overlooking a wide expanse free of tall trees and other hills the horizon appears as a perfect circle, 360 degrees of blue sky.  If Isaiah meant to tell us the earth was a globe, he would have used another word. A circle is not a ball, nor is a ball a circle. Everyone knew what a "circle" was in those times; it meant the same then as it means today."

So the original translation was "chuwg" not
"khug" as you stated.  

Where in this passage does it say the earth turns?!?!     Hebrew text.

Where?  Certainly not in the passage you posted.  And that contradicts other passages in the bible saying the earth is immobile, like this:
1 Chronicles 16:30:
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.  (KJV)

Turning is moving.

Psalm 104:5:
Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken

Sure sounds like the earth can't be moved or shaken.  And just what is the foundation of the earth?

And again, where in the passage you posted does it mention gravity, it says "hangs on nothing", well that's not true, gravity is not "nothing".  It doesn't mention gravity.  Most peoples at the time thought there was something "physical" supporting the earth.  Jews knew there wasn't.

And in the passages I sited above, the Jews DID think there was a physical foundation holding the earth, no secret knowledge here.

The writers of the Bible thought the heavens were a dome covering the earth, with water outside of the dome, remeber the doors and windows of heaven, pouring water out.
Ah, so you think they meant an actual physical door with a hinge and everything?  Do you think there is no water in the
atmosphere?


But they thought the water was on the other side of the "firmament".  
Genesis 1:6-8:
Then God said, "Let there be a dome in the middle of the waters, to separate one body of water from the other." And so it happened:
God made the dome, and it separated the water above the dome from the water below it.
God called the dome "the sky." Evening came, and morning followed--the second day.

Looks pretty clear to me.  The Jews thought the "circle of the earth" was a flat circle covered by a great dome called the sky and on the outside of this great dome was water.  In the 21st century, we know this is not true and was simply the myths of primitive people.

They made this comparison because when they looked up in the night sky, THEY COULDN'T COUNT ALL THE STARS THEY SAW!  Then why did other races think the stars could be numbered?

Show me where others said this, then show us the counts these mysterious "others" made of the stars...

they didn't know jack about radio frequencies  Precisely my point.

So how are singing and radio frequencies related?  It's this kind of ridiculous interpretation that makes you look so foolish.

Of course people of the time didn't think the movement of the stars and moon and sun were random  And yet astrology, which was en vogue at the time assumes that the movements of the stars are irregular.

Exactly the opposite.  It's the predictablity of the stars movement that allowed astrolgers to construct charts for the different signs.  So your point is totally blown apart, by the very example you sited.

The passage clearly says he made the TWO great lights, the sun for the day and the moon for the night, the writers of the bible thought the moon produced it's own light.  Go back to the original manuscripts which the translations were made from.  I thought I was clear.  Where does your confusion come from?

From your twisted interpretations...You said:
"1491 BC "And God made the two great lights; the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. And God placed them in the expanses of the heavens to give light on the earth" Genesis 1:16-17... The original manuscript does not include the words "he made" and "also".  It is added by the translator.  It should read "and the lesser light to govern the night, the stars" just to avoid anyone trying to say that Moses was referring to the moon.  Why did Moses think that starts made their own light when everyone else thought they just reflected it like the moon?"

it doesn't say the lesser lightS to govern the night, it says the lesser light, clearly meaning the moon.  

I didn't bother to debunk the rest of your pathetic list becaus, well, it's pathetic.  Oh, it's all pathetic, but I thought that disproving a few of your silly inferrences would demonstrate that they all were bunk.  But for religious zealots like you who have no room for reason, logic or reality, you'll never leave your fantasy land.

 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 3:23 PM on September 14, 2005 | IP
Demon38

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Right, you said bird-like dinosaurs.  Not birds.  Not something between birds and dinosaurs.  Bird-like is an adjective.  The noun is dinosaurs.  You are stating that they are dinosaurs.  That's all I'm clarifying.

yes, they were dinosaurs.  Dinosaurs with more bird like traits than other dinosaurs.  
Bird-like is an adjective, used to describe the physiology of the Oviraptorosauria.  They were dinosaurs with bird-like qualities.  Because of these bird-like qualities, they are evidence for evolution.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 3:28 PM on September 14, 2005 | IP
    
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