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Did Charles Darwin recant his evolution theory ? 

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/creation_darwin_recant.HTM


(Edited by admin 4/30/2002 at 3:04 PM.)



(Edited by admin 4/30/2002 at 4:00 PM.)
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 3:03 PM on April 30, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Yes.  He says one thing and contradicts himself.  He's a hippicrit.


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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:16 AM on September 25, 2002 | IP
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did you know that darwin retracted all of his theories on his deathbed and in his autobiography that he was working on. No darwinist will ever tell you that. He stated to some extent that he only did it for fame. Many historians belive that the ship he was on while sailing to the galopogos had bread which started to mold...and if you know about bread mold on rye bread you know it contains ergots which is like shrooms that people take to hallecinate, and many historians belive that he was tripping while creating these theories...same with the sa,em witch trials ergots made peolple hallecinate and they thought they saw people morph into and animal or talking to satan and then told others and people where executed....weird
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:27 AM on October 17, 2002 | IP
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Putting words in dead mens mouths is a common practice for christianity. I recommend the book The Great Infidels by Robert Ingersoll when it comes to this topic.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:59 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i recommend that you register


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:33 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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darwin knew that his theory was bogus. he said himself


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:34 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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i don't think darwin had any reason to retract his theories.  after all, he was right about evolution.  i mean c'mon folks.  we even see evolution occuring today.  to blindly stand behind a religious belief and say "man didn't come from no monkey" is quite narrow-minded.  not to mention it places huge restraints on the omnipotent, and almighty God.    


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 09:14 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
kc2gwx

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"we even see evolution occuring today. "

We do? Give me an example of macroevolution. One.


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Posts: 101 | Posted: 09:19 AM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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what real evidence do we have that man evolved from ape. evolutionists have tried to do this before, and ended up with evidence such as Nebraska Man


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:29 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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falling:
as far as i know Darwin never said man evolved from ape.  religious fanatics just jumped all over his theory and labeled him a heretic.  i may be wrong that's just what i've heard.  i've never researched the topic

kc:
i never said anything about macroevolution.  things adapt to their environment constantly.  that is a form of evolution.  do you seriuosly believe that every species on earth has remained exactly the same since the beginning of time?  i don't believe they have.  i'll just use the cliche giraffe example.  you have a short-necked giraffe and a long-necked giraffe.  short-neck starves, long-neck doesn't, blah, blah, etc, etc.  you know the story.  it makes perfect sense, and i see no harm in a Christian admitting evolution is possible.  evolution does not disprove God.


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Posts: 134 | Posted: 2:22 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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it was me that earlier gave the giraffe example, and i believe that type of evolution to be true and take place...but in my mind it is a fact that we where created. We never evolved from monkies like some people say bc that argument is just silly. We have yet to find any fossils of an inbetween monkey and man stage, also why didnt all the monkeys and apes and what not evolve into humans, we still have chimps monkeys and gorrillas running around, so why do people persist on this. The big bang theory is a crock of crap...its like saying we threw a grenade into a junkyard and a brand new corvette Z06 came flying out (gotta love the Z06...best sports car in the world and only 46,000 dollars, and you can beat most ferraris and lahmborghinis and porches which cost 250,000 dollars). the world is not in chaos it is orderly, to orderly to be by chance. We where created, this is fact.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 2:39 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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i totally agree with madbilly. dave, you dont seem to understand that just because we do not think that humans evolved from monkies does not mean that we dont think anything can change. think about it, the idea of a monkey turning into a human is ridiculous!! lets use some logic and common sense here!! here is the evolutionist's theory about how life started:  a single cell or amoeba (which just formed out of absolutly nothing) turned into a fish, the fish crawled on land and grew legs, and then the creature began to walk upright. this is absolutly ridiculous!!! yet we continue to teach this theory in our school system today!! there is no valid evidence that says we evolved from apes!! period.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 5:21 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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You're right, there is no evidence that we evolved from monkies or apes. If you knew the first thing about the theory of evolution you'd know this.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 5:46 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i'm a Christian and I believe in God. but i will be the first to admit that it is impossible to "prove" the existence OR nonexistence of a God. the same thing goes with evolution. it is impossible to "prove" that man evolved from ape because nobody was around back then. there is no way (unless we invented a time machine) to prove evolution. therefore, evolution will NEVER be a fact, it will only be a theory.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:36 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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By your logic ancient Rome and Greence may have not existed. I didn't see them, did you?
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 10:15 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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"i'll just use the cliche giraffe example.  you have a short-necked giraffe and a long-necked giraffe.  short-neck starves, long-neck doesn't, blah, blah, etc, etc.  you know the story.  it makes perfect sense, and i see no harm in a Christian admitting evolution is possible.  evolution does not disprove God."

Of course microevolution does not disprove God! It shows his amazing creation can adapt to most any enviroment.

Your girafee example does not contradict creation science in any way. Yes, speicies adapt to their enviroment. No problem. However, species do not change, over time, into other species through this adaption. It's never been shown, and as some scientists have shown, is genetically impossible.

I recommend 'Darwin's Black Box' by Michael Behe. Here is a simple review of his book:

Darwin's Black Box


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Posts: 101 | Posted: 12:02 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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you misunderstood what i said beavis. we have no written records of anyone who lived around that time period so how could we prove man evolved from ape? on the other hand, we do have written records of people who lived during Greek and Roman times


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:14 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
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So then if we have something left behind we can prove something existed?
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:45 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
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Careful....It's a trap!!!!


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 01:52 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
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Hehe.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 02:10 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
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fallingupwards:
we both know that we are both Christians.  we would both agree that God has not limits.  Why, then, can we say that God did not use evolution to create man?  Is that not limiting God?  Neither God nor evolution can be proved or disproved.  This debate will continue to circle as they always do, because no one can ever prove their point or disprove the other person


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 02:11 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i agree this is an endless debate. and God could do anything he wants, in fact, it would make perfect sense for him to use evolution. but i honestly believe that if He used evolution, he would have told us in the Bible. i believe that the Bible is divinely inspired


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:29 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
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Evolution has been proven enough for 90% of real scientists to accept it and move on. The laws of physics have been proven in the same matter. If you want to tell me that we can't actually prove gravity exists but only the effects of gravity, fine, the effects of evolution have been found and are proof to scientists. The fact is evolution has been cemented into real science as firmly as most other theories we all accept. You only argue this particular theory is not true or provable because you have a personal stake in it being wrong. If the laws of physics threatened your beliefs you'd just as quickly jump on them for being unprovable, but they don't, so you accept them.

(Edited by beavischrist 11/23/2002 at 02:48 AM).
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 02:47 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
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"Evolution has been proven enough for 90% of real scientists to accept it and move on."

Do you really think that every person who becomes a scientist critically studies evolution, then accepts it? No! They are taught it in school, without it's major problems, and then (usually) from there on they simple believe what everyone else seems to believe.

Then they become scientists. Since they already believe evolution, they interpret all evidence in an evolutionary frame-work. Even if they were presented something so blatantally obvious, such as gravity forming from nothing and for no reason, they will still atempt to explain it from an evolutionary point of view. Which, in the case of gravity, hasn't been done, and never will be.


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Sam, KC2GWX
 


Posts: 101 | Posted: 11:43 AM on November 23, 2002 | IP
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There are a good number of fields that are critically linked to evolution. I agree that its probably most engineers just take evolution for granted. Wait, how odd, the majority of creationists ARE engineers and NOT biologists or zoologists, etc.
If you want to talk about true bias, all creation scientists pledge loyalty to god and then interpret all of their findings in the framework of evolution being a lie.
From Morris-
"It is precisely because Biblical revelation is absolutely authoritative and perspicuous that the scientific facts, rightly interpreted, will give the same testimony as that of Scripture. There is not the slightest possibility that the facts of science can contradict the Bible."
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 12:44 PM on November 23, 2002 | IP
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  ARE WE LIVING IN THE LAST DAYS? DOES THE BIBLE PROVE IT?
   
  It is undeniable that we are in fact living in the last days, it is time to get right with the Lord today. Lets follow what Jesus said in Luke 21 to see if it is exactly what we see happening today.

  The chapter starts out with Jesus talking about how everything is going to pass away, then His disciples asked Him how they would know when this is going to happen. It is interesting that He told them even though He knew that they would not see this time, yet He spoke as though they would. Jesus said those things directly to you and I and this generation, and things are happening just as they were written.

                                               Luke 21
8: Jesus starts out by warning them not to be decieved because many    people will come in His name claiming to be the Christ. Christ means messiah, and many have claimed that indeed. Through these deceptive teachings of false messiah's or other god's , many of which twisting  the real Bible, billions are decieved or tricked into a lie. The "koran" the book the muslims claim is "holy" actually takes some of the old testiment of scripture, and decides thousands of years later, that God chose Ishmeal and not Isaac. An absurd supposition, but more than 1.5 billion people believe it. Over 800,000 people claim "buddism" as their religion. Many of both are being converted to followers of Christ daily, glory to God.

9: Jesus tells us of wars and rumors of wars. This has always been the case, there have always been wars, but never like now. We live in constant threat of war, and the television broadcasts are a direct reflection of that. The tension especially with the increasing nuclear threat and military advances, is growing at an amazing pace. I also find it very interesting that China, Russia, and Japan who formorly opposed our plan, seemingly stubbornly agianst us moving in on Iraq, all suddenly changed their minds in a almost suspicious fashion. In Christ I am not terrified, nor will I be.

11: Now Jesus names; earthquakes, famines, pestilences, and signs in the heavens. Earthquakes obviously have been here for a while, but not nearly as severe. Watch this, severe earthquakes charted from 1940 to 1990, by decades.                
        1940-4
        1950-9
        1960-13
        1970-56
        1980-74
        1990-125
so in 1940 there were 4 severe earthquakes, and in 1990 there suddenly was 125, this does not just happen, unless God said so.
    One third of the worlds population is starving to death, more than ever, even in America. By 2012 if God allows us to continue in the way we are headed, one forth of the population will be dying off from aids. I don't ever remember wheather being as weird as it has been lately, and that's whats being said all across the globe. Satalites all across the world are being set up to beam down with the Gospel of Christ Jesus, increasing constantly and consistantly. We have discovered that, in just one direction, when we beamed the hubble space telescope, there are hundreds of galaxies just like our milky way. That's just focusing on one spot. The odds of this creating itself are absolutly impossible.


This is only a small portion of the amazing evidence God has given to us. To deny God would be stupid, and to say "I will later" is to decieve ourselves. The Bible says,"The day of salvation in today". The devil will tell us to wait untill tommorow, but that is like denying Jesus today, this could be your only chance. If you are one of them that I sent this to, and you want to be forgiven, and you aren't going to fight that pull on your heart, that feeling inside, say this prayer,      God, I come in Jesus name, I ask to change me, to cleanse me, to throw out the old me, and renew me, I know I need you, I beg you God not to send me to hell, I dont want to be tortured forever, I want to live for you, give me another chance God, I will be yours forever in Jesus name, Amen.







   I hope God touched you through His servant with this powerful information. If you just became dedicated to Christ, let me know, I will talk to Jesus about touching your life, as He did mine. If anyone needs prayer requests let me know. If you cant just grab my return e-mail address here it is: bensaved2001@hotmail.com    
   Keep praising God everybody, it strengthens our Spirit. Always preach the Gospel of Christ Jesus. God is love.
                                               Benjamin, in His Blood
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:34 PM on December 17, 2002 | IP
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There's an organization called the United Church of God that has some good booklets about this sort of stuff... I got all of their material on this subject.

Click Here For Booklets

Those are provided free of charge and come in about a week. If you haven't found the site before I hope you sign up. Worth reading for sure. Enjoy


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 9:49 PM on December 21, 2002 | IP
debategirl88

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Evolution and God cannot be joined together. They contridict to much. Plus, If your a Christian, you believe in the whole Bible right? God says HE created the universe in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. He did not state the evotution theory as how the universe was created.The Bible is correct ALL the way through.
if you are a Christian then you would know that.


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 5:39 PM on January 3, 2003 | IP
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Let's see a show of hands. How many of you have actually read Darwin?

In lieu of that, how many have read a modern book on the theory of evolution, like "Darwin's Ghost" by Steve Jones? Or perhaps, "The Theory of Evolution" by John Maynard Smith, "River Out of Eden" by Richard Dawkins, or "What Evolution Is" by Ernst Mayr? Maybe even "The Structure of Evolutionary Theory" by Stephen Jay Gould?

I suspect, from the general level of intelligence of those who claim to oppose evolution in this thread, that none of you has had the integrity to actually educate yourself about matters that you claim to oppose. You have to be pretty dense to believe that you can learn science from religious tracts.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:37 AM on January 14, 2003 | IP
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Or even more interesting would be, of those who believe the bible is the divine word of god, how many of them have read the entire bible.  Word for word, verse for verse, chapter for chapter, book for book.  

Anyone who truly believes the bible is the divine word of god could not possibly have anything more important to do than to be sure to have read all of it. If you believe and have not read the bible in its entirety, than you are not taking your beliefs very seriously.  Don't just take the word of some minister, or some religious teacher, or your parents; find out for yourself what is in the bible.  You will probably be surprised.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 07:17 AM on January 14, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i bet alex hasnt read ALL of your evolution books. so that means he is uneducated and therefore his opinion about evolution is unworthy in a debate forum.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 08:46 AM on January 14, 2003 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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hey, why u picking on me?

i never claimed to know a lot of evolution. in fact, i think i actually have said the opposite. i see your point, falling, but i think you miss the bigger point. creationists are trying to PROVE  evolution is wrong, so they should be read more about evolution besides just creationism websites. i am not defending evolution, so i could care less. all i am doing is logically the incorrectness/imperfection of evolution does not point to creationism, and certainly does not point to any religious belief held by you or anyone else.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 09:33 AM on January 14, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i wasnt picking on you alex, because i have not read all about this subject either. i was merely making a point to our friendly guest.

alex, i do not consider myself a hard-core creationist or fundamentalist. i do not feel the need to take the whole bible literally. in fact, i think it is a mistake to. i am simply looking for some hard evidence for evolution. i want to keep an open mind and keep all options open. i question both evolution and creation. i think both theories have major flaws. i just want some good evidence. i am not going to blindly accept anything that comes to me.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 11:10 AM on January 14, 2003 | IP
Sarah2006

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Originally Posted by debategirl88: Evolution and God cannot be joined together. They contridict to much. Plus, If your a Christian, you believe in the whole Bible right?

That is actually not true at all.  In fact the majority of Christian religions accept evolution and a non-literal interpretation of the Bible.  (See my post under "Evolution is Failing" for the exact numbers)
God says HE created the universe in 6 days and rested on the 7th day.

No a man, granted he was inspired by God, but still, an IMPERFECT man wrote the Bible and an IMPERFECT man said God created the world in 6 days.  Not God.  
He did not state the evotution theory as how the universe was created.

Do you think the people of the time could have understood evolution enough to write about it.  No.  More importantly the Bible is a book of morals and of answers to WHY we are here.  NOT HOW.  It is NOT a science book.  

A literal interpretation of Genesis makes life a lot simpler. Unfortunately anyone who has studied Evolution can't pretend to still believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old and that there is no evidence for evolution. That's where I am.

Plus if you think about all the other things in the world, God made them all in a way that we could one day understand how they work. Sure the Bible says that plants exist, but it doesn't explain Photosynthesis. But sure enough Photosynthesis exists, God could have just made plants that exist. Why bother and make them complicated in a way that we understand, couldn't He had just made plants that just magically work with no scientific expanation how? He could have, but instead God made plants work in a way that we can figure out and understand. Same with anatomy. The Bible vaguely mentions blood and disease, but doesn't go into detail. So couldn't God have made Humans (and animals for that matter) just function, without all the complex blood vessels, lungs, etc. That would be the easy instantaneous way. But instead God made us work in a way that we understand (mostly). It could just rain, but no, He made it so we understand how it rains. Same with a million other things in the world. So why couldn't God have done the same thing with Creation. The Bible mentions creation. God did it. But why couldn't God have done it in a way that we could one day understand how, like He did everything else. Just a thought.

The Bible is correct ALL the way through.
if you are a Christian then you would know that.

Have you read the whole Bible?  I admit, I haven't either, but I have read large portions of it, and it is not inerrant.  It may have been inspired by God, but it was not written by Him so it is not perfect.  Again, see my post in the "evolution is failing" thread.  Very few Christian religions still believe in an inerrant Bible, most have accepted that it cannot be perfect.  It does have some flaws.  Furthermore, even if you won't agree to that it does not have to be entirely literal.  Much of it is figurative, why not Genesis?

Sarah
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 5:49 PM on January 14, 2003 | IP
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Getting back to the topic of the thread, no, Darwin did not recant on his deathbed.  And in case anyone asks, Sagan didn't turn to god when he died either.



 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 6:09 PM on January 14, 2003 | IP
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i agree sarah, the bible was written by imperfect men. therefore, the whole bible should not be taken literally. i guess the thing that i struggle with the most is which parts of the bible to take literally and which parts to take figuratively. if u could help clear that up for me sarah, i would appreciate it. thanks

its nice to have another christian perspective in this forum


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 8:00 PM on January 14, 2003 | IP
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Frankly fallingupwords, that is one of the hardest part, and I obviously don't have all the answers...no one does.  Pretty much, I try to take everything in the Bible literally unless it is obviously allegorical (as with many of the stories Jesus tells) or if I have to lie to my inteligence to believe it.  So if there is so much empirical evidence against something in the Bible and I cannot refute it with empirical evidence, then I can no longer take it literally.  Creation in 6 days is one of those things.  The flood I am still struggling with, just because there is no evidence of it, but it seems to be such an important point of the Bible.  I am going to talk to some Christian whom I trust on the subject before I make up my mind.

 My suggestion to you is any time you are uncertain, get as many point of views as possible.  From  literal Christians, non-literal Christians, and scientists.  Talk to ministers.  Get as much information on the single subject as you possibly can, and then given all the information and opinions decide what the most logical conclusion is.  Obviously there is no definite right answer, but I believe if you are as honest to yourself as possible you are doing the best thing you can.

Sarah
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 8:11 PM on January 14, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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thank you


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 8:21 PM on January 14, 2003 | IP
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u r all really sad!!!!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:58 AM on February 18, 2003 | IP
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Ah I have found the answer!

"We have yet to find any fossils of an inbetween monkey and man stage, also why didnt all the monkeys and apes and what not evolve into humans, we still have chimps monkeys and gorrillas running around, so why do people persist on this"


"The big bang theory is a crock of crap...its like saying we threw a grenade into a junkyard and a brand new corvette Z06 came flying out"

""here is the evolutionist's theory about how life started:  a single cell or amoeba (which just formed out of absolutly nothing) turned into a fish, the fish crawled on land and grew legs, and then the creature began to walk upright. this is absolutly ridiculous!!!"

I know exactly why you don't believe in evolution (or the big bang). What you describe above is nothing like evolution or big bang. No wonder you don't believe it - you don't know it.




 


Posts: 66 | Posted: 08:37 AM on February 19, 2003 | IP
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Sarah for flood stuff check out www.christiananswers.com
There is evidence!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:35 PM on February 19, 2003 | IP
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The story of Darwin's 'recantation' was revealed as a Christian hoax long ago.
That is, unless you believe the word of Lady Hope, who never met Darwin, over the word of Darwin's daughter, who was by his side when he died.
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 01:22 AM on February 23, 2003 | IP
CrimsonWeltall

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BTW, Michael Behe accept evolution as a whole.  He just has problems with the early stages.


 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 01:23 AM on February 23, 2003 | IP
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"Sarah for flood stuff check out www.christiananswers.com
There is evidence!"

Sorry guest, there is absolutely NO evidence supporting a global flood and a huge amount of evidence showing that there never was a global flood.  Believing in a myth doesn't make it true.

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 06:21 AM on February 23, 2003 | IP
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-Over 250 Flood legends from all parts of the world have been found. Most have similarities to the Genesis story

-The length-to-width ratio of 6 to 1 is what shipbuilders today often use. This is the best ratio for stability in stormy weather. (God thinks of everything!)

-The top 3,000 feet of Mt. Everest (from 26,000-29,000 feet) is made up of sedimentary rock packed with seashells and other ocean-dwelling animals.

-Petrified clams in the closed position (found all over the world) testify to their rapid burial while they were still alive, even on top of Mount Everest.

-"One of the best evidences that strata were accumulated very rapidly, rather than at Schuchert's postulated average rate of about one foot in every two thousand years, comes from a consideration of fossils. Dunbar and Rodgers considered Schuchert's average rate of deposition and said:

Internal evidence in the strata, however, belies these estimates [of the average rate of deposition]. In the coal measures of Nova Scotia, for example, the stumps and trunks of many trees, are preserved standing upright as they grew, clearly having been buried before they had time to fall or rot away. Here sediment certainly accumulated to a depth of many feet within a few years. In other formations where articulated skeletons of large animals are preserved, the sediment must have covered them within a few days at the most. Abundant fossil shells likewise indicate rapid burial, for if shells are long exposed on the sea floor they suffer abrasion or corrosion and are overgrown by sessile organisms or perforated by boring animals. At the rate of deposition postulated by Schuchert, 1,000 years, more or less, would have been required to bury a shell 5 inches in diameter. With very local exceptions fossil shells show no evidence of such long exposure. Evidently then, either our estimates of geologic time are grossly exaggerated, or else most of the elapsed time is not represented in any given section by sedimentary deposits."

-"On the Paluxy River near Glen Rose, Texas, this author found a stratum three feet in thickness composed primarily of closed fossil clams numbering in the millions. The stratum is peculiar for two reasons. First, clams do not live solidly packed together in a layer three feet thick. They naturally inhabit a sandy or rocky environment, each clam at some distance from another. Second, clam shells are rarely found in whole, closed condition, but broken apart at the hinge. On the seashore each valve (half of the clam's shell) is usually found separate from the other valve. The reason is that the hinging ligament is on the outside of the shell and tends to open the two valves. Only the muscles of the clam can keep the valves closed. When the clam dies, the muscles relax and the shell opens due to the outside hinging ligament.

How was this clam layer formed? The best explanation seems to be that the clams were washed into their present location and buried alive. If the clams had died prior to burial, the shells would have been open rather than tightly closed. The clams must have been transported because they could not have lived amassed in the layer in which they are found. Turbulent and flowing water seems to be the only mechanism which could rapidly transport and deposit heavy objects like clams. Some catastrophe like the Flood seems to be a most reasonable explanation. "


-thanx for the help Pie...
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:49 PM on February 26, 2003 | IP
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Let's see...since most early civilizations formed on the fertile banks of rivers, of course there would be an abundance of flood legends.
Cultrures borrowing earlier cultures myths would account for any similarities to Genesis.  
And what about Egypt?  It's written history starts before the time of the "Flood", continues with no mention of it into modern times.  How could the Egyptians miss something like a global flood?  Even more incredibly, how could they not have been destroyed by it?  They obviously were not, so no global flood.

The dimensions of the ark prove nothing about a world wide flood, so we can completely discount them.

The top of Mt. Eversest is made of sedimentry rock and packed with sea shells and other ocean dwelling animals because at one time it was a sea bed.  India slammed into the Asian continent and pushed up Mt. Everest and is still pushing it up to this day.  No evidence of a flood.

This whole clam shell rational is ridiculous.  Localized conditions can more than account for them, I fail to see how this is solely dependent on a world wide global flood.  Paluxy is infamous for it's creationist scams so I have to immediately discount any "evidence" concerning that area.  so, once again, no global flood.

And Flood proponents have yet to provide any realistic answers to questions like 'where did all the water for the Flood come from and where did it all go', or 'how did Noah gather all the animals, how did only eight people care for them and how did they get to their present habitats'.

Stick to the facts, we've come a long way in 3000 years. A global flood did not happen, could not have happened.  It's time to wake up and face reality.



 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 04:03 AM on February 27, 2003 | IP
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    It is very unlikely, at best, that all those different flood accounts would have been counted reality and fallowed as if it was, if in fact there was no evidence that it had actually occured. Do you imagine that all these ethnic groups, many that dispised the nieghboring cultures, would gladly just copy their flood accounts? Many of the people likely were isolated from their surrounding for quite a while, and wouldn't have even had the pleasure of doing so even if they pleased. Or what about the people that already had their "laws" or religious documents written, do you think they just skipped back a few pages and put the flood account in their recordings? Or is it very likely that all those ethnic groups just had their leaders get together and decide that a global flood must have occured, and then after that was done they continued being the enemies they originally were (as was the case for many of them, surely with exceptions)?. Highly unlikely that all these different cultures had the same illusionation of this "mysterious flood". Expecially since those cultures just took the fact of a flood, and not all or even any of the details into consideration. Let's be careful not to neglect the truth, especially if it could affect our eternity!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:04 PM on February 27, 2003 | IP
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You miss the point, all these primitive peoples probably did suffer through massive local floods.  And since their entire world was only a few miles on either side of the river, it might have SEEMED like the entire world was being flooded from their limited perspective.  
Secondly the many flood stories from around the world are very different.  They do not mirror the biblical account.  There are no unifying themes that point to one world wide flood.
You still haven't explained how other cultures were totally unaffected by a global flood.  I mentioned Egypt in my previous post but there are others.  How could these civilizations
predate the supposed flood and continue uninterrupted through it.  Obviously if there was a massive, world wide flood that destroyed everything except Noah and his ark, they couldn't.  But since we have records of them living before, during and after the flood, then obviously there was no flood.

 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 10:07 PM on February 27, 2003 | IP
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 Im sorry sir, you drastically under-estamate the human mind, these people were able to build pyramids, and other various types of infastructures of amazing stature, but they thought that their little river was the whole world!!? They were actually not as primative as many of us would think, because they did not come from apes, but they were created by an All Powerful God. The differences are very relevant, because they validate the flood. If all the accounts had notable simularities one would have more of a right of using the "copy cat" arguement, although still the arguement would easily be shot down, so to speak. The obvious differences of the worldwide flood are evidence of it's truth. These different cultures all used their own methods of relaying the same undeniable truth of the flood account. It was obviously undeniable at the time otherwise there would have never been so many recordings of the event, seeing as how a large percentage of the ethnic groups wanted to be unique and set apart. And sir, with all due respect, the flood accounts are nearly all insisting on a world wide flood or at least a vast flood of  extreme measure. That is all that is necessary to insist on a world wide flood, and the lack of other details, shows (as stated earlier) the obvious truth in every cultures mind in regards to this unique event. The dates of the Egyptian civilization are uncertian and debated among scholars, with many leaning as late as 2900 B.C., but most in the general area of 4000 B.C. as you have stated. This does not bring in to question the account of the global flood, but just tells us to carefully consider the timing of these historic events and civilizations. There is absolutely no reason that a reasonable and practical mind cannot beleive the flood account, or any other Biblical account for that matter. Thank you again for your patience.
           
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:47 PM on February 28, 2003 | IP
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Wait a minute, if all these cultures sprang from just the eight people on Noah's ark then wouldn't all their flood stories be identical?    Your contention that these differences validate the flood is ridiculous.  If they all came from the same source they would be nearly identical, but they are not.  The differences are much more likely due to various cultures suffering thru great localized floods and creating their own myths to explain them.
I'm puzzled by your statement:
  "And sir, with all due respect, the flood accounts are nearly all insisting on a world wide flood or at least a vast flood of  extreme measure."
Are you conceding that it didn't have to be a world wide flood, only a "vast flood of extreme measure"?  This is what I've been saying, a large catastrophic flood would seem like the whole world to many of these people.
And I must disagree with your statement:
 "There is absolutely no reason that a reasonable and practical mind cannot beleive the flood account, or any other Biblical account for that matter."
There is no physical evidence supporting a world wide flood and an enormous amount against it.  To believe in the flood account is certainly your right, but to say there is any evidence to support that claim is just plain wrong.

(Edited by Demon38 2/28/2003 at 11:51 PM).
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:50 PM on February 28, 2003 | IP
    
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