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LEssu

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A Flat earth and Noah’s Flood

Take a look around you. What do you see? You will see a flat sphere around you, and you can easily imagine this sphere has edges where it ends.

There if no reason you could imagine the world as different if you don’t get some other external input, like photographs from satellites.

So does the Bible describe the earth as different? No, it does not! The Bible clearly describes a flat earth. Here are some Bible passages that prove that:

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble
the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah
from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS
OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind
should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked
might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of
affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE
EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity,
and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto
heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and
sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
(KJV)

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.   (From
the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"

"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in
majesty and is armed with strength.  The world is firmly established;
it cannot be moved.   (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"

"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns."   The world [Again, the
deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly
established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with
equity.  (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.  
(From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"


"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are
like grasshoppers.  He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and
spreads them out like a tent to live in.  (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah
40:22)"

First of all, a circle is not a ball or sphere or an egg-shaped object.  A circle is a flat round surface, similar to flat rectangular, or square, or triangular surfaces.

If we were to take condition #1, then we are left with a clear and irrefutable contradiction between Isaiah 40:22 and some of the Bible's verses that I mentioned above in the article, because a flat
circle doesn't have "four corners", and ironically in either case, we still have a scientifically false claim about the Earth's shape.

IF we were to take condition #2, then it doesn't prove that the Earth is an egg-shaped figure, and Isaiah 40:22 surely becomes irrelevant to this subject.

One thing is for sure clear, and that is Isaiah 40:22 is obviously ambiguous and not clear if we wish to prove from it that the Earth is not flat and is egg-shaped.

So why Am I writing all this?

My point is that the Bible describes the world as flat, AND IT COULDN’T DO ANYTHING ELSE!

The Bible describes the world as we experience it. There had not been a chance that the Bible had been preserved if it described a rotating egg formed globe circulating around the sun. NOT A CHANCE, because this is completely against our reality!

If we look at what the entire Bible says (as presented above by all the Verses) about the shape of the Earth as the Roman Catholic Church did in the past, then we would reach the same conclusion they reached, and that is:  The Earth is Flat!

So my point is this. The Bible is NOT an authority in scientific matters.

The Bible contains metaphors, myths and real events, combined with a spiritual message, but the SPIRITUAL MESSAGE IS THE MESSAGE, not a scientific.

Now, I wrote in the introduction, that you need to get some external input to be able to refute the flat earth view of the Bible. When you get this input, you can be absolutely sure the world is not flat.

I have made a film on my pro-Christian channel regarding Noah’s flood, which provides you with the same input, so you can be absolutely sure Noah’s flood is not a real event. You can see the film on Youtube by entering creationismxyz in the search field.

By watching the film, you can discard the Young Earth claims without further concideration, just like the last flat earthers did with the flat earth.
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 4:33 PM on August 26, 2009 | IP
AFJ

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Ya know this is old, and all that hard work, but you are wrong.

I have already written this once and cited.  When Jesus was describing the rapture, you know where he says two shall be in the field, one shall be taken and one shall be left.  He gives two examples.  One at night with two people in bed, and one in the day with people in the field.  The event happens at the same time--the people will be taken and people will be left.  What do you do with this?  Reinterpret it?  

You say look--you see a circular horizon.  Well then why would they even say the 4 corners???  That's not even the language of appearance. That was obvious to even ancient peoples who thought the earth was flat. Could 4 corners be an expression of that time?  It could well be.

Four corners could also  be the 4 directions or 4 quadrisperes.  The east and the west land masses with the north and south hemispheres.

If you think that the Bible is know nothing book because it wasn't written by scientists --except Solomon and Daniel--it is only because you have never felt God's power or presence on your life, nor have you ever seen his power at work--neither directly nor indirectly.  

If you had, you would never be able to question or dismiss the Bible as religious writings.

When simple uneducated fishermen--Peter and John--preached Christ and him crucified to the masses in the Book of Acts... it says "and God worked with confirming the word with signs and wonders following."  

Science can not find God, God already gave you a tool to find Him--it is your heart, but you have to seek Him with all of it--not to put Him to the test--He is not your lab rat!
 


Posts: 86 | Posted: 8:41 PM on August 26, 2009 | IP
orion

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Pretty weak argument.  The many passages in the Bible clearly indicate not only a flat earth, but an earth that was the center of the universe.  

The Bible is NOT a science text book.  Nor should it be taken to be literally true.  
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 01:34 AM on August 27, 2009 | IP
LEssu

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I fully agree with orion.

If you want to know the truth about creationism, just watch my video.

Creationism

The video has got really good feedback from everyone.
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 10:56 AM on August 27, 2009 | IP
Star Lion

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Tell me, can there be a global flood, as described in Genesis, if the earth was conceived of as flat or disc-shaped? Is that even possible? The global flood is described as rising above the mountains:

And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. -Gen. 7.19-20

Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. -Ps. 104.5

I'd like to see you flood a table-top with water that stood over the highest surface 15 cubits. No, you can't can you? Of course antiChrist don't accept a global flood anyways and can never see the advanced knowledge implicit in books as early as Genesis because they're blinded.

Truth is, the only way a global flood could occur as described in books as early as Genesis is if the earth is already assumed to be a globe!! There is no other way, otherwise the rising waters would rush over the sides of earth and could never stand high above the mountains!!

Also, "4 corners of the earth" is a phrase used to this very day. You must be REALLY desperate to try to use that one for proof!

Other places in scripture, the Hebrew term translated 'earth' can also be referring to land mass, nation, continent, tera firma, dirt, etc. not just the entire planet, as you would like. Nice try.

"Turn your world upside down" is also a modern phrase, similar to the biblical quote you used; it doesn't mean we think the earth is flat.

People to this day also still refer to the "sunrise" and "sunset," just watch the weather channel or read a modern book on astronomy! The fact that all little culturally conditioned antiChrists still try to use this one speaks volumes.

As for the "circle" of the earth, I'm glad you brought this up. The Hebrew term is better translated as "circuit" as it is elsewhere (yet the essential meaning is the same with circle). This is an astronomical term which actually reveals advanced knowledge that the earth traveled in a circle or circuit (i.e. orbit) when considering the context it is used here (and the context it is used elsewhere, as when talking about the apparent 'circuit' of the sun from earth's vantage point, cf. Ps.19.6).

So with this in mind, looking again at the passage in question:

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.  He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.  (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah
40:22)

We can see that the vantage point here is NOT from earth but out in the heaven (the passage even describes the heavens being spread/stretching out, more advanced knowledge modern astronomy has finally caught up with) from God's vantage-point looking down on earth.

So what do we know, from the vantage point of space, that rests on the circle/circuit of the earth? In other words, what does the earth circle around? That's right, THE SUN!

The passage here uses poetic or symbolic language to relay very advanced scientific knowledge (as it does in many places, including David's song about the mazzaroth (zodiac) and the sun in Ps.19 where the same Hebrew term is used to describe the apparent "circuit" of the sun, in terms astronomers still use today.)

Yes, He sits upon the circle of the earth. The sun is a well-known and apt symbol of God in scripture, but being ignorant of the scripture, this advanced insight will go right over your heads:

But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. -Mal.4.2

For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. -Ps.84.11 (this passage Isaiah would have known well when he wrote Is.40.22)

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens he has pitched a tent [tabernacle] for the sun, which is like a bridegroom [Christ is referred to as the bridegroom and his bride is his people, the ekklesia] coming forth from his pavilion, like a champion rejoicing to run his course. It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other; nothing is hidden from its heat. -Ps.19.1-6

Note- Here David is singing about the parable in the zodiac of a coming savior who was anticipated in every nation across the language barriers tho it had been corrupted since the time of Nimrod or (Ni)Mard-uk. In fact, when Paul talked about how the heathen nations should be ready for the Gospel of Christ, he quotes this passage about the message in the stars/zodiac known the world over from the earliest patriarchs (it embodies the prophecies from Eden for instance), showing why the nations should recognize him. (cf. Roman 10.18) Christ fulfilled the religions of the Jews and the Gentiles when all the pagan distortions are swept away.

The bible is head and shoulders over any criticism the ignorant antiChrists can come up with. Copernicus and Galileo, both ardent bible students, never went against anything in the bible, no, they were against the corrupt church of Rome/Vatican who had adopted the heathen concepts of astronomy instead.

God is known by nature in his works, and by doctrine in his revealed word. -Galileo

Kepler also developed the mathematical formulas used to plot the celestial bodies still used by NASA today, so that he could find out what the Star of Bethlehem was! Science is advanced when taking the bible serious. We now know what it was and that Matthew was giving astronomically precise details of what the wandering star really was and how the magi (astronomers of their day) knew that the Jewish Messiah was born, and guiding them by the star and other astronomical signs. Wa-aay over the heads of the modern antiChrists who know nothing of these discoveries, nor do they want to.

It doesn't end there either. Besides revealing what would take 1000s of years to discover, that the earth is floating untethered in space (Job 26:7), the oldest book of the bible, Job, has some of the most sublime astronomical knowledge described in poetic passages that only in modern times can now be appreciated on a whole new scientific level that far exceeds any astronomical knowledge of earth's roundness or orbit around the sun, bearing a witness to this fallen age of ignorant, arrogant antiChrists.

***
God's question to man:

Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? -Job.38.31-3 [KJV]

Let's take this in sections:

"Canst thou…loose the bands of Orion?"
Garrett P. Serviss, the noted astronomer, in his book CURIOSITIES OF THE SKY wrote about the bands of Orion:4

  At the present time this band consists of an almost perfect straight line, a row of second-magnitude stars about equally spaced and of the most striking beauty. In the course of time, however, the two right-hand stars, Mintaka and Alnilam, will approach each other and form a naked-eye double; but the third, Alnitak, will drift away eastward so that the band will no longer exist.

In other words, one star is traveling in a certain direction at a certain speed; a second one is traveling in a different direction at a second speed; and the third one is going in a third direction and at a still different speed. Actually every star in Orion is traveling its own course, independent of all the others. Thus these stars that we see forming one of the bands of Orion are like three ships out on the high seas that happen to be in line at the present moment, but in the future will be separated by thousands of miles of ocean. In fact, all the stars constituting the constellation of Orion are bound for different ports, and all are journeying to different corners of the universe, so that the bands are being dissolved.

same with the Pleiades.

"Canst thou bind the sweet influence of the Pleiades…?" Notice the amazing astronomical contrast with the Pleiades. The seven stars of the Pleiades are in reality a grouping of 250 suns. Photographs now reveal that 250 blazing suns in this group are all traveling together in one common direction. Concerning this cluster, Isabel Lewis of the United States Naval Observatory tells us:5

Astronomers have identified 250 stars as actual members of this group, all sharing in a common motion and drifting through space in the same direction.

Elsewhere Lewis speaks of them as "journeying onward together through the immensity of space."

From Lick Observatory came this statement of Dr. Robert J. Trumpler:6

  Over 25,000 individual measures of the Pleiades stars are now available, and their study led to the important discovery that the whole cluster is moving in a southeasterly direction. The Pleiades stars may thus be compared to a swarm of birds, flying together to a distant goal. This leaves no doubt that the Pleiades are not a temporary or accidental agglomeration of stars, but a system in which the stars are bound together by a close kinship.

Dr. Trumpler said that all this led to an important discovery. Without any reference whatsoever to the Book of Job, he announced to the world that these discoveries prove that the stars in the Pleiades are all bound together and are flying together like a flock of birds as they journey to their distant goal. That is exactly what God said. "Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades?" In other words, Canst thou keep them bound together so that they remain as a family of suns?

INCREDIBLE! God's laws of cosmology are loosing or dissolving the constellation Orion. Sometime in the far distant future, Orion will be no more. Conversely, wonder of wonders, every last one of the 250 blazing suns in the Pleiades are ordained of God to orbit together in their symmetrical beauty throughout eternity.

What of Acturus?

"Canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?" Garrett P. Serviss wrote:7

  Arcturus, one of the greatest suns in the universe, is a runaway whose speed of flight is 257 miles per second. Arcturus, we have every reason to believe, possesses thousands of times the mass of our sun. Think of it! Our sun is traveling only 12½ miles a second, but Arcturus is traveling 257 miles a second. Think then of the prodigious momentum this motion implies.

A further observation of Arcturus by Serviss:8

  It could be turned into a new course by a close approach to a great sun, but it could only be stopped by collision head on with a body of enormous mass. Barring such accidents, it must, as far as we can see, keep on until it has traversed our stellar system, whence it may escape and pass out into space beyond to join perhaps one of those other island universes of which we have spoken.

Charles Burckhalter, of the Chabot Observatory, added an interesting note regarding this great sun:9

  This high velocity places Arcturus in that very small class of stars that apparently are a law unto themselves. He is an outsider, a visitor, a stranger within the gates; to speak plainly, Arcturus is a runaway. Newton gives the velocity of a star under control as not more than 25 miles a second, and Arcturus is going 257 miles a second. Therefore, combined attraction of all the stars we know cannot stop him or even turn him in his path.

When Mr. Burckhalter had his attention called to this text in the book of Job, he studied it in the light of modern discovery and made a statement that has attracted worldwide attention:10

  The study of the Book of Job and its comparison with the latest scientific discoveries has brought me to the matured conviction that the Bible is an inspired book and was written by the One who made the stars.

The wonders of God's universe never cease to amaze us. Arcturus and his sons are individual runaway suns that seem to be out of orbit in our galaxy. Traveling at such immense speeds, why don't they crash with other suns or planets? Where are they headed? Only God knows. Indeed they are not runaways. They will not crash. Why? God is guiding them.

From: http://www.bible411.com/andgodcried/chapter2.htm

So God accurately depicted these 3 star systems poetically with amazing insight and descriptive terms that modern astronomers would use nearly 3800 years later, astonishing scientists even today by God's handy work and trusty witness of the stars of his greatness just as he used them to teach Job.

Was it all just luck? Maybe if you're an antiChrist.

-Star Lion

(Edited by Star Lion 12/3/2009 at 01:41 AM).
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 01:26 AM on December 3, 2009 | IP
Demon38

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Tell me, can there be a global flood, as described in Genesis, if the earth was conceived of as flat or disc-shaped? Is that even possible? The global flood is described as rising above the mountains:

Sure, if the earth is a flat disc covered by a beaten metal dome, completely surronded by water, as the bible describes.  
A global flood is a primitive myth disproven by science over a hundred years ago.  Unbelievable that there are people living today who still  believe this bronze age myth.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 08:36 AM on December 3, 2009 | IP
Fencer27

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Quote from Star Lion at 01:26 AM on December 3, 2009 :
Tell me, can there be a global flood, as described in Genesis, if the earth was conceived of as flat or disc-shaped? Is that even possible? The global flood is described as rising above the mountains:


God can do anything, why not believe that He was able to keep the water from running off? Are you lacking in faith?

Of course antiChrist don't accept a global flood anyways and can never see the advanced knowledge implicit in books as early as Genesis because they're blinded.


Like talking snakes right? Or better yet, that God created Adam and Eve completely innocent without the knowledge of good and evil. Then punished them for doing something "evil" that they did while not having the knowledge of good and evil. Never mind Jesus said "if you were blind, you would have no sin", meaning if you're ignorant you cannot sin.

Truth is, the only way a global flood could occur as described in books as early as Genesis is if the earth is already assumed to be a globe!! There is no other way, otherwise the rising waters would rush over the sides of earth and could never stand high above the mountains!!


Of course the whole thing could just be mythology, as there is no evidence for a global flood. Noah's flood was most likely the black sea flood that was mythologized over time into the written Torah.

Also, "4 corners of the earth" is a phrase used to this very day. You must be REALLY desperate to try to use that one for proof!


So if the phrase turns out to not be scientifically accurate it is just a metaphor?

People to this day also still refer to the "sunrise" and "sunset," just watch the weather channel or read a modern book on astronomy! The fact that all little culturally conditioned antiChrists still try to use this one speaks volumes.


So Joshua didn't stop the Sun in the sky?

As for the "circle" of the earth, I'm glad you brought this up. The Hebrew term is better translated as "circuit" as it is elsewhere (yet the essential meaning is the same with circle). This is an astronomical term which actually reveals advanced knowledge that the earth traveled in a circle or circuit (i.e. orbit) when considering the context it is used here (and the context it is used elsewhere, as when talking about the apparent 'circuit' of the sun from earth's vantage point, cf. Ps.19.6).


So there is nothing to the Catholic church scholars who believed the Earth was unmovable while all the stars and Sun moved about the Earth? This went on for quite a while, all stemming from the Bible.

So with this in mind, looking again at the passage in question:

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.  He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.  (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah
40:22)

We can see that the vantage point here is NOT from earth but out in the heaven (the passage even describes the heavens being spread/stretching out, more advanced knowledge modern astronomy has finally caught up with) from God's vantage-point looking down on earth.


Actually this passage says nothing of the natural World at all, despite what you tell yourself. There is a huge cultural difference between us and the ancient Hebrews, making it very hard to understand what the passages actually mean. This particular passage doesn't mean that the universe is expanding, but rather that God dwells in heaven while humans dwell on Earth, and God is in control of both.

So what do we know, from the vantage point of space, that rests on the circle/circuit of the earth? In other words, what does the earth circle around? That's right, THE SUN!


So Ecclesiastes 1:5-"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose", is wrong?

The passage here uses poetic or symbolic language to relay very advanced scientific knowledge (as it does in many places, including David's song about the mazzaroth (zodiac) and the sun in Ps.19 where the same Hebrew term is used to describe the apparent "circuit" of the sun, in terms astronomers still use today.)


The problem is that many of these poetic passages are also dead wrong when it comes to science. Like Genesis 30:37-39 "
37And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.

38And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.

39And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted."

We know now that it doesn't matter what you force animals to look at before or while they mate and what their offspring will look like. Really, all you are doing is chary picking verses from the Bible that make it sound scientifically advanced.

Christ fulfilled the religions of the Jews and the Gentiles when all the pagan distortions are swept away.


That is why Christmas and Easter are remnants of pagan holidays right?

The bible is head and shoulders over any criticism the ignorant antiChrists can come up with. Copernicus and Galileo, both ardent bible students, never went against anything in the bible, no, they were against the corrupt church of Rome/Vatican who had adopted the heathen concepts of astronomy instead.

God is known by nature in his works, and by doctrine in his revealed word. -Galileo


Galileo also said, "The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go."

Kepler also developed the mathematical formulas used to plot the celestial bodies still used by NASA today, so that he could find out what the Star of Bethlehem was!


Kepler developed the three laws of planetary motion, which are the bases for plotting the paths of planets, but NASA doesn't stop there when formulating the actual path of the planets. And he didn't do this to find the star of Bethlehem, but to understand the mathematical system God used to sustain the planets in their orbit.  

Science is advanced when taking the bible serious.


No, quite the opposite. An example is Einstein himself, who revitalized the fields of physics/astronomy/cosmology with his theories of relativity. He is, at most, a deist, and did not look to the Bible as a source of information.

It doesn't end there either. Besides revealing what would take 1000s of years to discover, that the earth is floating untethered in space (Job 26:7), the oldest book of the bible, Job, has some of the most sublime astronomical knowledge described in poetic passages that only in modern times can now be appreciated on a whole new scientific level that far exceeds any astronomical knowledge of earth's roundness or orbit around the sun, bearing a witness to this fallen age of ignorant, arrogant antiChrists.


Yes, like that the universe is a flat-universe, instead of closed or open. And, a flat universe is the only type of universe that can come about from nothing due to quantum fluctuations.

Anyways, what about Job 9:6? "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble." Is this passage wrong?

God's question to man:

Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? -Job.38.31-3 [KJV]

Let's take this in sections:


Again, chary picking some verse that seem to have scientific significance.

What about 1 Kings 7:23? "And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."

This basically says that the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter is 3. This is just out right wrong, as the ratio of the circumference to diameter is commonly known as pi. Pi is approximately equal to 3.14, not 3.0.

While you have some interesting connections, I say it is chary picking.

What of Acturus?


What of it?

Arcturus, one of the greatest suns in the universe, is a runaway whose speed of flight is 257 miles per second. Arcturus, we have every reason to believe, possesses thousands of times the mass of our sun. Think of it! Our sun is traveling only 12½ miles a second, but Arcturus is traveling 257 miles a second. Think then of the prodigious momentum this motion implies.


Um... Arcturus cannot be thousands of times more massive than the Sun. It is no more than 1.5 solar masses, with our Sun being 1.0 solar masses. The upper limit of a star's mass is ruffly 200.0 solar masses before it collapses on itself and explodes.

Your use of numbers in the speeds of the Sun and Arcturus is misleading. The Sun is only moving at 12.5 miles per second relative to other stars in the area, while it really moves at 156 miles per second around the galaxy.

That is a lot of mass for any Sun to move at hundreds of miles a second. Now how would you feel if I told you that entire galaxies can theoretically go faster than the speed of light, which is ruffly 186,000 miles a second?
 
When Mr. Burckhalter had his attention called to this text in the book of Job, he studied it in the light of modern discovery and made a statement that has attracted worldwide attention:10

  The study of the Book of Job and its comparison with the latest scientific discoveries has brought me to the matured conviction that the Bible is an inspired book and was written by the One who made the stars.


Indeed, shove any big fancy numbers and chary picked coincidences to any laymen or ignorant person and watch them oooh and ahhh in amazement.

The wonders of God's universe never cease to amaze us. Arcturus and his sons are individual runaway suns that seem to be out of orbit in our galaxy.


That is because Arcturus was originally not part of our galaxy, but part of a dwarf galaxy that the Milky Way galaxy engulfed.

Traveling at such immense speeds, why don't they crash with other suns or planets?


Because, like our Sun, it is in a region of the galaxy where the density of stars is low.

Where are they headed? Only God knows. Indeed they are not runaways. They will not crash. Why? God is guiding them.


Most likely to the halo of the galaxy. It will probably not crash into another star because it isn't in a high density region of the galaxy.

So God accurately depicted these 3 star systems poetically with amazing insight and descriptive terms that modern astronomers would use nearly 3800 years later, astonishing scientists even today by God's handy work and trusty witness of the stars of his greatness just as he used them to teach Job.


So we should just ignore all the incorrect things stated in the Bible, or even in the book of Job itself (the Earth being supported by pillars).

Was it all just luck? Maybe if you're an antiChrist.

-Star Lion


Or someone who proclaims that "I don't feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their usage." -Galileo

-Fencer





-------
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 10:06 AM on December 3, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Amazing post, Fencer!!!
It was awesome!
Almost flawless!

Here's a couple of comments:
chary pick
It's "cherry". ;)

Arcturus, one of the greatest suns in the universe, is a runaway whose speed of flight is 257 miles per second. Arcturus, we have every reason to believe, possesses thousands of times the mass of our sun. Think of it! Our sun is traveling only 12½ miles a second, but Arcturus is traveling 257 miles a second. Think then of the prodigious momentum this motion implies.
Um... Arcturus cannot be thousands of times more massive than the Sun. It is no more than 1.5 solar masses, with our Sun being 1.0 solar masses. The upper limit of a star's mass is ruffly 200.0 solar masses before it collapses on itself and explodes.
I think you're both wrong.

Look at this video.



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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 12:02 PM on December 3, 2009 | IP
Fencer27

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Quote from wisp at 12:02 PM on December 3, 2009 :
Amazing post, Fencer!!!
It was awesome!
Almost flawless!


Thanks!

Here's a couple of comments:
chary pick
It's "cherry". ;)


Hey, whose the native English speaker hear? ;) LOL, 'You are just chary picking your Bible verses.' Ironically I think both definitions (cherry and chary) work here, especially when invoking definition 2a.

I think you're both wrong.

Look at this video.



And I think I'm right :D

Mass doesn't equate to volume in stars. VY Canis major is thought to only have a solar mass of 15-25. It is known as a supergiant off the main-sequence. After the main sequence portion of a star's life it expands and grows in volume, but not mass (in fact the mass is less than what it was on the main sequence). The most massive star is WR 102ka, and is ruffly 175 solar masses.


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"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 1:18 PM on December 3, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Oh, yeah, you're right!

Actually i didn't even pay attention. :S
You were talking about masses, not sizes... Sorry.

He said "one of the greatest suns in the universe"... The word "mass" passed me by from there on. Haha!



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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 1:30 PM on December 3, 2009 | IP
    
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