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   Creationism vs Evolution Debates
     Forget Geology!
       There is NO archaeological evidence of a world Flood

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Forget about the Grand Canyon, fossils records and whale bones atop mountains.  THERE  IS  NO  ARCHAEOLOGICAL  EVIDENCE for universal Flood!

Most Creationists posit a date somewhere between 2,300 BC and 2,400 BC as the biblical date for the biblical Flood.

A simple look at the archaeological record demonstrates this cannot be.  We have an unbroken record of human activity in Mesopotamia and Egypt that precludes such a notion of a universal Flood.  In 2,350 BC the Akkadian were at the height of their influence in Mesopotamia.  There is NO evidence that the Akkadians were wiped out by a Flood.  In fact, they were supplanted by the Guttians which came after them.  

If there was a universal Flood that wiped out all human beings at this time we would see it.  If civilizations suddenly came to an end, we would see it.  But we don't!

Arguing geology is pointless, as a Creationist will simply read the evidence through his/her biblical interpretation.  But where there is no evidence, there is no argument.  There is NO archaeological evidence of a universal Flood.



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So When Was The Flood?
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 3:38 PM on September 18, 2009 | IP
anti-evolutionist

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where did you get the number 2,300BC - 2,400 BC?

the following quote was taken from the  'Evolution theory' thread
after a little research (gotta love the internet) I found that the usual consensus is as follows:
- the flood occurred some time between 3000BC and 2105 BC (although one date went as far as saying 5500 BC)
- the flood waters rose over 40 days and 40 nights
- Noah and others stayed in the Ark a little over 1 year



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due to a lifestyle change I am not posting as often, but I still like to read posts when I can.
my apologies to anyone you who asks me questions that don't get answered.
 


Posts: 111 | Posted: 3:59 PM on September 18, 2009 | IP
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If you check the Creationists sites, you'll find the date 2,350 BC often used as the date of the Flood.  But even if you were to give 3,000 years on either side of that date you still won't find any archaeological confirmation of a world wide flood which wiped out all human beings.

The city of Jericho has strata dating all the way back to 9,000 BC.  There is no evidence that Jericho was ever inundated by water.  There is no sedimentary layer in its history which would confirm a universal Flood.  Nor can you find such in any ancient city which would correspond to a similar event in all cities of the same time period.  None!


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So When Was The Flood?
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 5:04 PM on September 18, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

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Quote from anti-evolutionist at 3:59 PM on September 18, 2009 :
where did you get the number 2,300BC - 2,400 BC?


From Answers In Genesis:

The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC +/- 11 years.

The Date of Noah's Flood

If you don't like it complain to Ken Ham.


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Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 9:45 PM on September 18, 2009 | IP
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Why do I need to consult Ken Ham when I can look at the archaeological record?

Mesopotamian history is rich and fascinating.  Its principle inhabitants were the Sumerians, a non-Semitic people.  For brevity, their history can be separated into periods, as seen in the listing below.  

Ubaid period 5300 – 3900 BC
Uruk IV period 3900-3200 BC
Uruk III period 3200-2900 BC
Early Dynastic I period 2900-2800 BC
Early Dynastic II period 2800-2600 BC
Early Dynastic IIIa period 2600-2500 BC
Early Dynastic IIIb period 2500-2334 BC
Lagash Dynasty 2550- 2380 BC
Akkad Dynasty 2450-2250 BC (creation theorists time of flood)
Gutian period 2250-2150 BC
Ur II period 2150-2000 BC (time of Abraham)


Each of these periods has a distinct history marked by differences in their pottery, trade routes and listings of kings.  One can gain a basic knowledge of each by reading the article in Wikipedia on the Sumerians.  Of particular interest to me is that there is no distinguishing break in the history of these periods that would be characteristic of a human cultural catastrophe (i.e., the entire human population was wiped out by a natural disaster.)  Some creationists posit the idea (through calculations of genealogies in Genesis) of a world wide flood occurring around 2350 BC…right smack in the middle of the Akkadian Dynasty…one of the richest in terms of archaeological discoveries.  And yet there really is no such indication that Akkad was wiped out by a flood.  Indeed, the downfall of the Akkadians was at the hands of their Gutian successors.  The Akkadians were still around at the time of the Gutian conquest.  Times did get really tough for Sumerian lands around 2000 BC, when there is strong evidence that a major depopulation occurred in southern Mesopotamia.  Agriculture became especially difficult at this time due to rising salt levels in the soil.  Many left the area and a major depopulation of the southern city states led to the collapse of Sumerian culture altogether.  The biblical character Abraham (from Ur) may have been one who left the area for similar reasons as his citymen did.

But there really is no suggestion in archaeology for a universal flood during this great Sumerian time period in history.  There is, however, evidence of many local floods due to being in the flood plain of the Tigris-Euphrates basin, and even a very large local flood.  But there is no evidence of a universal deluge that hit the earth at any point along this Sumerian timeline of history.  

So if the flood was universal, it must have occurred before the Sumerians.  Or, it may have been just a really big local flood.  In any case, there is NO evidence in history of a universal wipeout of humankind.

Forget geology, paleantology, carbon dating, fossils...etc.  Show me the archaeological evidence for a universal Flood!




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So When Was The Flood?
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 08:51 AM on September 19, 2009 | IP
wisp

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anti-evolutionist
where did you get the number 2,300BC - 2,400 BC?

the following quote was taken from the  'Evolution theory' thread
after a little research (gotta love the internet) I found that the usual consensus is as follows:
- the flood occurred some time between 3000BC and 2105 BC (although one date went as far as saying 5500 BC)
- the flood waters rose over 40 days and 40 nights
- Noah and others stayed in the Ark a little over 1 year
That was all you had to say on the matter?


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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 12:27 AM on October 24, 2009 | IP
JSF16

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I will reply a little later on with more details, but the ancient Babylonians have record of a world wide flood, the details are nearly parallel to the genesis account, to find it, Google the epic of Gilgamesh. In the epic, he states that a man, with the Babylonian version of the name Noah, told him of a massive flood that he and his family survived. I'll come back with details on the ark, but studies show it was very capable of holding two of each animal that would have needed to come on board, as well as the sufficient food supplies, and, modern shipbuilders confirm that the design of the vessel would stand up to the fiercest of waves.


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Everyone says expect the unexpected, but since now everyone expects the unexpected, the unexpected is now the expected and the expected is the unexpected. So if you are expecting the unexpected, you are actually expecting the expected, so if you start expecting the expected, you will be expecting the unexpected. So everyone should start expecting the expected again and the expected will be expected and the unexpected will be unexpected again, then we can start expecting the unexpected again.
 


Posts: 103 | Posted: 6:11 PM on October 29, 2009 | IP
orion

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The Legend of Gilgamesh is fiction, a creation  myth.  The writers of the Bible may have borrowed ideas from it, such as a huge flood, and incorporated it into their own stories.  

Early civilizations had there origins near great rivers, the Tigris/Eurphrates for one.  Rivers flood periodically.  A particularly nasty flood gets exaggerated over time.  It becomes bigger than life, so to speak.  Presto, the tale of Noah and the Ark is born.  End of story.  


 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 9:27 PM on October 29, 2009 | IP
    
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