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   Creationism vs Evolution Debates
     Dragons
       myth or real?

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JimIrvine

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C'mon now. You guys aren't taking this seriously!
;)


-------
Lester in logical fallacies
That’s IN MY HEAD –you know, kind of like a pneumonic helps people to remember;,

Lester in Naturalism
the reality is that medical doctors have no training in evolution

Lester in 'Scientists Assert:
Ancestors assumes evolution.
 


Posts: 320 | Posted: 09:01 AM on October 16, 2009 | IP
firechild

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Quote from anti-evolutionist at 03:14 AM on October 8, 2009 :because that is what you where always taught? unfortunately that does not make you correct.


Is this not why most Christians believe in the bible? People are exposed to religion very early in life by their parents who have a very substantial bearing on beliefs and greater opinions whether they be religion, politics or other values/views. The fact that there is no substantial evidence for the bible does not stop millions of people blindly following the views of an invisible man that lives in the sky.

History tells us that stories are exaggerated, King Arthur is an excellent example of this. There is no reason to believe that these historical stories are in any way accurate. The stories are likely to come from combinations of percieved sightings - Someone saw something entirely more plausible that they mistook for something else, exaggerations of actual accounts - a 12' snake suddenly becomes a 40' snake and chinese whispers - the snake is soon large enough to swallow an elephant whole.

perhaps you could try and find some evidence that shows it is impossible for such a creature to exist. so not just that it didn't exist, but that it couldn't exist.


Noone said it is impossible for such a creature to exist but it is unlikely and even if such a creature did exist, it is most likely that the characteristics are quite exaggerated. In much the same way it is not entirely impossible for a unicorn to exist, obviously a divergence from the Equine lineage but the evidence does not suggest this to be true. In the same way it is possible that a divergence from the reptilian lineage caused these animals to evolve from lizards at much the same time as snakes evolved but the forelimbs became wings (not entirely out of the question considering it did happen some time later when birds evolved). Unfortunately there is no fossil or biological evidence to suggest this is the case. If these creatures existed at the time you are suggesting (as late as the 1700s) there would be a wealth of evidence supporting your claims. Depictions of these animals also suggests they would be flightless, looking at structures found on other flighted animals in comparison says this is a very poor design for an animal that flies as gracefully as a dragon is suggested to have flown. No serpent like animal has the power of flight, though a few species are able to glide short distances.




(Edited by firechild 12/8/2009 at 12:15 AM).
 


Posts: 86 | Posted: 12:13 AM on December 8, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

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Since Lester believes in dragons, here is a question.

Were dragons quadrupeds?


-------
Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 6:36 PM on April 3, 2010 | IP
wisp

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I asked him this question lots of times. He never answered.

And he complains that we never answered his dumb question about "new structures and functional systems", in spite of the dozens of answers we gave him...

So, Lester, dragons... How many limbs?
You said their depiction was that of a dinosaur. So please, name the source of that depiction, and the dinosaur it depicted.

Do you see a dragon here?



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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:56 AM on July 3, 2010 | IP
wisp

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Yes? No? Maybe?

How many friggin legs, Lester?

Is that SO hard?

You keep asking us to give you very specific things, while you give us nothing... Not even the amount of limbs!
This is ridiculous...



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 02:03 AM on July 18, 2010 | IP
wisp

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Hello? Some limbs, please?


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 2:27 PM on July 28, 2010 | IP
wisp

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How many limbs did dragons have, Leser?

Six?


Four?









-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 06:01 AM on October 3, 2010 | IP
wisp

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Quote from Lester10 at 09:32 AM on October 9, 2010 Mass Extinctions and Evolution (not this one, oooh nonono):
I showed you a Chinese dragon illustration in my last post, and you dodged it.
Wisp, you're the evolutionist here and evolutionists claim that many creatures didn't fossilize, in fact isn't it claimed to be most of them?

Now you dodge the fact that you dodged it. Nice.

Anyway, this doesn't get you off the hook. You made an assertion, and you haven't supported it.

This is what you said:

"
Pictures of dinosaurs (called dragons) with people in China and in many historical accounts seem to count against the hypothetical extinction in the mind of the evolutionist. "

You're claiming they're dinosaurs. Well, what makes you say such a thing? Did they only describe and draw those "
dinosaurs" that wouldn't be found? Isn't it unlucky? It's like your god was against you our something.

There's also the problem of interpretation of bones and putting flesh on boney skeletons that are incomplete or even complete. Perhaps that kind of dragon has been found but the artists illustration was incorrect.
Riiight... Perhaps those who believed in giant flying magical footed snake-like dragons that lived in the water got it right, and the scientists got it wrong... So basically your claims are unfalsifiable. Right? Whenever we try to falsify them, you'll just throw in some "
perhaps".

But those "
dragons" were supposed to be carriers of good luck and have control over floods (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_dragon#Ruler_of_weather_and_water ). Kinda tricky for the flood myth...

Isn't it lovely when myths conflict? ^_^

Modern belief

In modern times, belief in the dragon appears to be sporadic at best. There appear to be very few who would see the dragon as a literally real creature. The worship of the Dragon Kings as rulers of water and weather continues in many areas, and is deeply ingrained in Chinese cultural traditions such as Chinese New Year celebrations. Dragon kites are also used in these celebrations.


Yeah, they sure sound like dinos.

Not this one:

Nah. Just a bird.

There are other dragons that are certainly dinosaurs that have been drawn on cave walls.
Oh! "
Certainly"!

Can we have something more than your word so we can be certain too?

There are dragons in history books that could easily have fitted bones that have been found in the earth.
Put up, or shut up.

Do you think all the people who gave historical accounts of dragons were all lying?
You haven't shown me any single one yet. I won't answer to your generalization. Just go ahead and show me.

Would you answer to such a question? Do you think the people who gave historical accounts of leprechauns were all lying?

Perhaps the dragons/dinosaurs, like the extinct (but not extinct) coelocanth, didn't die out after all?
We know. Some avian ones survived.
After all 300 odd million fictitious years with no coelocanth bones didn't stop the coelocanths from reappearing did it?
Blah blah blah. You're not willing to discuss this subject, so i'm skipping it. When you're prepared to talk about it earnestly, let us do it in the right thread. The one you cowardly ran away from.


Living fossils Pages [ 1 2 3 ]

You don't feel comfortable talking in specific threads about the specific subjects they're about. Why would that be?

Oh, yeah... You already answered. And the answer was a quite confusing "
Yes".

I know this would wreak temporary havoc with your dinosaur stories but at least it would stop any new inventions about how the dinosaurs went extinct from coming out and being an embarrassment to evolutionists.
Oh, please! Embarrass us! Just like you tried with the Tiktaalik's shoulders. Remember?

We're embarrassed for you.
You don't seem to possess that ability.
Surely you have some sense of shame that becomes slightly bothered everytime there's a new story of how the dinosaurs went extinct?
Me? Does it have a big impact on the Theory of Evolution if they died one way or the other?

How do you explain their sudden disappearance from the fossil record?

Oh, yeah... You don't.



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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:32 PM on October 11, 2010 | IP
wisp

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Lester, you love mentioning dragons in any thread but this one.


Don't you think your audience might get suspicious?



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 08:35 AM on October 13, 2010 | IP
Ch2O2

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Quote from anti-evolutionist at 01:49 AM on October 12, 2009 :[/b]
originally the purposes of this thread was to going to be to list as many examples of dinosaur in medieval art and culture as possible. and thus try and force evolutions to provide better reasoning for stating "dinosaurs died out millions of years ago" than just 'because evolution says so'.


Just because you have pictures of mythical medieval dragons does not prove they existed at the same time has humans. There are pictures of lots of different mythical creatures that we know for a fact only exist in the imagination of people.


despite being presented with evidence, albeit non-empirical and (thus) inconclusive evidence.
and despite being able to mount no evidence to the contrary. (Fencer27 did give evidence that supports an alternative explanation, but nothing that actually directly opposed the evidence for Dragons):
the evolutionists stayed narrow minded in their beliefs, siding with their preconceived ideas rather than the evidence presented. the Only evidence presented.


Your argument is not valid. Even you acknowledge that you did not provide conclusive evidence, in fact you provide no evidence at all in favour of dragons. Even you dont pretend to believe dragons are real. You started out trying to establish that dinossours existed in medieval time. If you know for a fact that dragons are not real do you expect anybody to even consider your "inconclusive evidence"? Evolucionists have preconceived ideias?!?! DRAGONS ARE NOT REAL! What preconceived ideias? It is you responsability to show the evidence in favour of dragons, not the other way around. It is your claim!
What you did was a sad attempt to use a non argument to prove a fallacy. And you knew perfectly well how devious that was. You should be ashamed of yourself.


(Edited by Ch2O2 10/17/2010 at 9:55 PM).


-------
www.mundo-das-formigas.blogspot.com
 


Posts: 51 | Posted: 9:49 PM on October 17, 2010 | IP
wisp

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Sorry to disappoint you, but we don't have any engaging creationists in this forum. Just denialists who run even from their own claims.


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:53 AM on October 18, 2010 | IP
    
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