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       What do they point to and why?

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wisp

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Common designer, say the creationist. They fail to explain why, however.

If every creature had different traits and genes that would be a compelling evidence for ID. Evolution couldn't possibly be true.

Not only creationists would use it as evidence FOR an intelligent designer: we would be creationists too.

So how do they manage to use the exact opposite as evidence for the same thing?

They have no model that would predict that an intelligent designer would repeat itself (using similar genes or using similar structures with different genes). They offer no reasoning behind this claim.

Anything to say on the matter, Lester? Anyone?

Does your hypothesis include a lazy designer? Any other thing to justify this idea of repeating designs? Or was he in a hurry, with only 6 days to design everything?


(Edited by wisp 10/26/2009 at 09:27 AM).


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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 7:19 PM on October 25, 2009 | IP
Lester10

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Common ancestor, say the creationist. They fail to explain why, however.


But we don't say common ancestor, we say common designer.You say common ancestor.

If every creature had different traits and genes that would be a compelling evidence for ID. Evolution couldn't possibly be true.


They do have different traits. But they use the same proteins and working parts eg. DNA. That's what you'd expect from a factory where different things are built but a creative intelligence thinks them up and puts them together.

Not only creationists would use it as evidence FOR an intelligent designer: we would be creationists too.


You should be. It is so obvious to us, we can't work you out, except to think you're keeping your eyes closed on purpose.

So how do they manage to use the exact opposite as evidence for the same thing?


We say creatures are related; you say creatures are related. You say common ancestry, we say common designer. What exactly is your problem? What exact opposite are you talking about?

Frankly, you are not making sense at all.









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Richard Lewontin: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism... no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door”
 


Posts: 1554 | Posted: 02:41 AM on October 26, 2009 | IP
wisp

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But we don't say common ancestor, we say common designer.You say common ancestor.
Darn! Haha! My mistake. I edited it. Sorry.
If every creature had different traits and genes that would be a compelling evidence for ID. Evolution couldn't possibly be true.
They do have different traits.
I mean completely different. All of them. If each creature had a completely original (or even mostly original) set of traits.
But they use the same proteins and working parts eg. DNA.
Some do, some don't. Sometimes you get the same genes to do the same things, sometimes you get the same genes to do different things, sometimes you get different genes to do the same thing.

We have a simple explanation for that (if you want to talk about them, let's do it in another thread).

What's yours?

That's what you'd expect from a factory where different things are built but a creative intelligence thinks them up and puts them together.
Here's your opportunity to explain why.

WHY?

Show us your logic!

Why does your god repeat himself?

Is he lazy?

Was he in a hurry?

Was he playing around?

Did he want to test our faith? Was he messing with our heads?

Some of the similitudes we see depend on this simplest factor: geography.
That's easily explained even in your hypothesis: common ancestor. You do say that about animals that belong to the same 'kind' (whatever that means).
The cat and the tiger share lots of DNA. We agree that it's because they share a common ancestor (well, i think, i don't know if all creationists agree on this).

You don't see any continuity among kinds. You don't even think the line is thin, and that there is a puzzle (and yet you fail to classify things according to their kind, which is quite revealing).

I expect for the thylacine to share more DNA with a koala than with a jackal (my only tools to make this prediction are the ToE, morphology and geography).
That's exactly what we mean when we say it's a marsupial.
What do you mean when you say it? Do you even dare to say it?

Not only creationists would use it as evidence FOR an intelligent designer: we would be creationists too.
You should be.
Please, reread. You must have missed something.
It is so obvious to us, we can't work you out, except to think you're keeping your eyes closed on purpose.
Consider banning the word 'obvious' from your vocabulary. It doesn't add anything to your speech but stubbornness. Let's talk science and logic.

So how do they manage to use the exact opposite as evidence for the same thing?
We say creatures are related; you say creatures are related. You say common ancestry, we say common designer. What exactly is your problem?
We say why, you don't.

My 'problem' is expressed clearly in the OP, and you don't address it.

What exact opposite are you talking about?
Universe 1: All creatures are different. There must be an intelligent designer.
Universe 2: All creatures share traits. There must be an intelligent designer.

Frankly, you are not making sense at all.
Why do you feel the need to clarify when you're being frank?



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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:26 AM on October 26, 2009 | IP
waterboy

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Lester

Where is your evidence that there is a 'common' designer. Why not someone who 'designed' plants and someone else who 'designed' animals and yet another someone who designed some other galaxy?

Why a common designer?


-------
Charis kai Eirene
 


Posts: 218 | Posted: 05:41 AM on October 27, 2009 | IP
wisp

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If each species (or kind, whatever) was an original design... Wouldn't you use THAT as evidence for creation, Lester? As i've said before, Evolution couldn't possibly be right if that was the case.

You have shown no reasoning behind your belief that Yahweh should repeat himself. Please, do.

If you don't know any reason why he should, say so.

Copypaste this:
I don't know.

(Edited by wisp 11/2/2009 at 03:36 AM).


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 03:35 AM on November 2, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Or (if you do know), you could (you know?) give some answers...


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 07:56 AM on November 14, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Hello?


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 11:23 PM on November 25, 2009 | IP
Fencer27

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I think the creationist community has migrated out of here and moved to creationist-run forums where they wallow in their own ignorance, banning those who dare try to spread enlightenment upon their fellow man. Then claim with the utmost hubris how impenetrable their failed logic is to all the slings and arrows atheistic evolutionists with all their might have swung at them. Sneering at how incompetent and willfully ignorant the fiends against creationism are, one could laboriously point out projection till the world's end. Well, that's what I think anyway.  


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"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 11:45 PM on November 25, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Yeah, we speak in tongues and cast out creationists.


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 1:50 PM on November 26, 2009 | IP
    
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