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   Creationism vs Evolution Debates
     Really, really, really young

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orion

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The latest Hubble deep, deep field photo taken with the new Wide Field Camera 3 shows galaxies as they were only about 600-900 million years after the Big Bang.  Now that's looking back a long time ago!  What, about 12 - 13 billion years.

Those galaxies are really, really, really young, but the light we're recieving from them is really, really, really old!

Just After the Big Bang: Hubble's Deepest View of Universe Unveils Never-Before-Seen Galaxies

I would like to know how YEC reconcile the modern cosmological view of the universe with a 10,000 (or less) year old biblical view?

It's not just evolution YEC are arguing against, but basic underlying principles in every other field of science - astronomy, physics, chemistry, geology, etc.  
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 8:08 PM on December 8, 2009 | IP
JimIrvine

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Quote from orion at 02:08 AM on December 9, 2009 :
I would like to know how YEC reconcile the modern cosmological view of the universe with a 10,000 (or less) year old biblical view?

Well Orion, as I understand it (now this is quite a complex theory so bear with me) it goes like this:
GodDidIt!
At least, that seems to be the general vein of their (YECs') argument. Hope this helps in your understanding.
Sincerely
Jim Irvine



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Lester in logical fallacies
That’s IN MY HEAD –you know, kind of like a pneumonic helps people to remember;,

Lester in Naturalism
the reality is that medical doctors have no training in evolution

Lester in 'Scientists Assert:
Ancestors assumes evolution.
 


Posts: 320 | Posted: 02:15 AM on December 9, 2009 | IP
Fencer27

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GodDidIt is a perfectly good response, but Christian apologetics needed a little more sciency sounding answer to keep the skeptics from recanting YEC so the new theory: There is no way to tell if the speed of light is a constant! For all we know the speed of light was really really fast, and so we are seeing these things as they were only 10,000 years ago!


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"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 04:52 AM on December 9, 2009 | IP
JimIrvine

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Interesting Fencer. I mean, we've always observed that the speed of light is constant (in a vacuum of course). I always thought that creos wouldn't accept 'sciency stuff' that wasn't repeatable and observable. Now they're claiming that it might not have been constant (without repeatable and observable 'proof')? Now where did I see a creo shouting that "observable and repeatable" stuff... Oh yes, just about every single thread that they get involved in (you know who you are ;) )


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Lester in logical fallacies
That’s IN MY HEAD –you know, kind of like a pneumonic helps people to remember;,

Lester in Naturalism
the reality is that medical doctors have no training in evolution

Lester in 'Scientists Assert:
Ancestors assumes evolution.
 


Posts: 320 | Posted: 05:41 AM on December 9, 2009 | IP
orion

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Ummm, did God speed up nuclear fusion reactions within stars too?  Maybe radioactive half-lives are all wrong also?

Sure, God-did-it, and made everything only appear as though they are old, that life evolved.

Sure, makes perfectly good sense.


 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 10:29 AM on December 9, 2009 | IP
Fencer27

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You see Orion, what you are forgetting is that God doesn't deceive, that's the Devil's job. There's enough problems with the "old earth" as it is, I don't think I need to list them here. As they've been discussed enough on the other threads that any person who isn't completely willfully ignorant can see that there is no way the universe is more than 10,000 years old.

But of course, you evos will deny anything out of your want to reject your creator because you don't want to repent and live a holy and righteous life. For you have traded God for false images of beast and man as Romans clearly teaches, and your foolish hearts were darkened because of it.

JimIrvine, you forget that if it is not scientifically proven and it goes against creationism then it is false. As everything that goes against a literal reading is automatically in conflict with reality. Nonetheless, if something is not scientifically proven, but the possibility is that it confirms the literal accuracy of the Bible (as all reality does), then it is the truth. Unless the good ole folks down at ICR and AiG have something to go against it.


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"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 11:39 AM on December 9, 2009 | IP
Apoapsis

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Have you been kidnapped and replaced with a YEC?


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Pogge:” This is the volume of a sphere with a 62 kilometer (about 39 miles) radius, which is considerably smaller than the 2,000 mile radius of the Earth.”
Wikipedia:” For Earth, the mean radius is 6,371.009 km(≈3,958.761 mi; ≈3,440.069 nmi).”
Wisp to Lester (on Pogge): Do you admit he was wrong about the basics?
Lester: No

 


Posts: 1747 | Posted: 11:02 PM on December 9, 2009 | IP
orion

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I think Fencer is playing the devil's advocate for us, seeing as how all the Creos seem to have taken a leave of absence for the past few days.

Done with your finals, Fencer?  :0)


 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 01:23 AM on December 10, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Light used to be faster (besides Yahveh started the Universe with the light, remember?). Every isotope used to decay faster too. And trees produced many rings/year. Species used to microevolve at amazing speeds... except for lambs and swine. Those were always that.


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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 05:43 AM on December 10, 2009 | IP
JimIrvine

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Wisp, fencer, that all makes so much sense now. It all boils down to the fact that Creation is fact. And we know that creation is fact because ... well, because Creation is a fact, and the bible tells us this therefore the bible is a fact too and therefore that means that creation is a fact which proves the bible to be the infallible, innerrant word of god (apart from the bits that aren't)
Does that summarise the facts of creation ok? Did i miss anything of import?


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Lester in logical fallacies
That’s IN MY HEAD –you know, kind of like a pneumonic helps people to remember;,

Lester in Naturalism
the reality is that medical doctors have no training in evolution

Lester in 'Scientists Assert:
Ancestors assumes evolution.
 


Posts: 320 | Posted: 07:32 AM on December 10, 2009 | IP
Fencer27

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Quote from orion at 01:23 AM on December 10, 2009 :
I think Fencer is playing the devil's advocate for us, seeing as how all the Creos seem to have taken a leave of absence for the past few days.


Very true. I wonder where all the YECs have gone.

Done with your finals, Fencer?  :0)


I still have 3 more, 2 on Tuesday and 1 next Thursday. Then I'll be free!


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"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 12:56 PM on December 10, 2009 | IP
JimIrvine

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Quote from Fencer27 at 12:56 PM on December 10, 2009 :

I still have 3 more, 2 on Tuesday and 1 next Thursday. Then I'll be free!


Best of luck (figuratively speaking)



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Lester in logical fallacies
That’s IN MY HEAD –you know, kind of like a pneumonic helps people to remember;,

Lester in Naturalism
the reality is that medical doctors have no training in evolution

Lester in 'Scientists Assert:
Ancestors assumes evolution.
 


Posts: 320 | Posted: 7:18 PM on December 10, 2009 | IP
wisp

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To a YEC, ignorance is bliss. They dwell and thrive in it.

To a scientist, something we ignore (a mistery) can be an exciting starting point.
To a YEC it's the happy ending.

That's why, instead of trying to find positive evidence for YEC, they just point out misteries (or what they think are misteries, even though we've figured them out and have moved on long ago).

Gap = victory

Gaps is all they have. Their scientifically illiterate minds make them think that a lack of knowledge on some particular counts as evidence for the existence of a certain god from the thousands that humans have imagined.

Well, more precisely a lack of knowledge on something they kinda like.
To the question 'How did the type 3 secretory system appear?' they will hesitate (and disagree), even though it's very similar to their beloved bacterial flagellum.



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Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 7:47 PM on December 10, 2009 | IP
truthworks

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The Bible doesn't teach that the universe or our planet is only 10000 years old. The six days in Genesis aren't literal (earth) days. This is shown by Hebrews 4. The 7th day was still happening 2000 years ago.

So the universe is indeed 13-16 billion year old. The only conflict with Scripture is that some people are holding to their interpretations and ignoring science.
 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 07:52 AM on December 11, 2009 | IP
derwood

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Quote from truthworks at 07:52 AM on December 11, 2009 :
The Bible doesn't teach that the universe or our planet is only 10000 years old. The six days in Genesis aren't literal (earth) days. This is shown by Hebrews 4. The 7th day was still happening 2000 years ago.

So the universe is indeed 13-16 billion year old. The only conflict with Scripture is that some people are holding to their interpretations and ignoring science.



I'm thinking that the TROO Christians on here will not agree....  that you are a Christian, for one thing...

But they seem to have run away of late.


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Lester:

"I said I have a doctorate and a university background in anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, physics, chemistry, pathology etc. ..."
 


Posts: 1646 | Posted: 11:41 AM on December 11, 2009 | IP
    
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