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       Brought to you by Deuteronomy 28

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wisp

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Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.

17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.

18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.

19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.

20 The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him. [a] 21 The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The LORD will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and ravish her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The LORD will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.

36 The LORD will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your fathers. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror and an object of scorn and ridicule to all the nations where the LORD will drive you.

38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.

43 The alien who lives among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 He will lend to you, but you will not lend to him. He will be the head, but you will be the tail.

45 All these curses will come upon you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the LORD your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The LORD will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the LORD your God is giving you.

53 Because of the suffering that your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For she intends to eat them secretly during the siege and in the distress that your enemy will inflict on you in your cities.

58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the LORD your God- 59 the LORD will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring upon you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The LORD will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the LORD your God. 63 Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

64 Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known. 65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the LORD will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. 66 You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, "If only it were evening!" and in the evening, "If only it were morning!"-because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see. 68 The LORD will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 08:24 AM on December 27, 2009 | IP
orion

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Sounds more like 'the words of Man' to me, trying to control his fellow man with fear and threats.

Hardly the words you would expect from an omnipotent God who is supposedly all wisdom and understanding.  It really is remarkable how many people have so much reverence in a book that depicts, and condons, such suffering and violence.

I'm glad I'm not one of them.
 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 12:16 PM on December 27, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Did you get the part about eating your own children?

If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the LORD your God- (58) he'll send you enemies to destroy you and rape your wife (30) among many other nasty things.

It looks as if you can get a better time by not knowing the Lord. By the time that was written, the enemies mentioned there seemed to be left alone by the Lord. Pretty much like we're ALL left alone now. You can say "Yahweh, you're an idiot.", and no lighting strikes you.

This part confuses me:
The LORD will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again.

So the prophet said it would never happen again, and now he's having second thoughts. So why would he be believed now?

And this:
Your carcasses will be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away.

It's as if it said "The Lord knows that, since you believe in Him, you're an ignorant fool and care about your carcass."

Well, i'm not really confused. But Christians should.

The Bible says that those who go to Heaven will rejoice watching those who didn't make it being tortured in Hell.

Does Yahweh take away your compassion when you get to Heaven? Hill he make a woman whose son didn't make it into Heaven strong enough to rejoice at his torture?

This too: Nahun 1:


1 An oracle concerning Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.

The Lord 's Anger Against Nineveh

2 The LORD is a jealous and avenging God;
      the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath.
      The LORD takes vengeance on his foes
      and maintains his wrath against his enemies.

3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power;
      the LORD will not leave the guilty unpunished.
      His way is in the whirlwind and the storm,
      and clouds are the dust of his feet.


4 He rebukes the sea and dries it up;
      he makes all the rivers run dry.
      Bashan and Carmel wither
      and the blossoms of Lebanon fade.

5 The mountains quake before him
      and the hills melt away.
      The earth trembles at his presence,
      the world and all who live in it.


Did you get that? The Lord is slow in his anger... Well, he seemed pretty quick in his anger against little groups of people who had done nothing to His people, when they were weak and easy to plunder and burn and rape and kill. His anger becomes slow only when the people he's angry against are powerful. Then he just pulls some strings in the Universe and causes some eventual climate change.

If you don't obey Yahweh you better be powerful. He'll be easier on you. Just as if he didn't exist and people were appeased by being told you'll pretty much fall on your own.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 5:53 PM on December 27, 2009 | IP
orion

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Wisp - are you trying to turn people off to Christianity by pointing out such outrageous and barbarian passages from the Bible?  

How do biblical literalists come to terms with such brutal and appalling teachings?  


 


Posts: 1460 | Posted: 9:46 PM on December 27, 2009 | IP
wisp

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Wisp - are you trying to turn people off to Christianity by pointing out such outrageous and barbarian passages from the Bible?
Yes.
How do biblical literalists come to terms with such brutal and appalling teachings?
By saying "It was ok for that time and period". Some assume the risky stance that the prophet misinterpreted Yahweh (which, of course, makes us wonder: what if they got EVERYTHING wrong?). But most just ignore it. They leave that question in stand by. They don't dare to make the question. They just wait till they hear a reasonable (their standards aren't high) explanation by a fellow literalist.

I don't know if you've seen this video:
What would Jesus NOT do?



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 01:05 AM on December 28, 2009 | IP
vBlueSki

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The strangest thing happened to me. I denied the belief in God, and my life is better :D no curses here baabbbyy


-------
Deny Everything
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 10:26 AM on December 6, 2012 | IP
ANorveyanFellow

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*Massive necro-post*

Ah yes, the good ol' Old Testament. I would politely point out that, technically, applying to the readers -the Israelites- that sort of punishment/consequence would be one hundred percent and totally justified, considering that the Israelites would have been raised and brought up in a Yahweh-fearing culture and would've known full-well how completely holy and perfect he is, meaning that rebelling against such an entity is not only foolish, but one of the worst and most rebellious acts you could do.

Technically, from how I see it, going on that the Judeo-Christian God is completely perfect in his nature, then anything he does/decrees is justified by the fact that he did it. Questioning and discussing these nasty sounding decrees by God is all well and good, but as I see it, any criticism that humans make of an eternal infinite time-spanning being is completely irrelevant and void, somewhat comparable to the criticism of the UN by a young child with zero knowledge of political workings. With our tiny, mortal, finite and flawed viewpoint, we cannot begin to see things in the context a being as incredible as God would, so our criticisms are groundless.

Interesting stuff though.
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 2:50 PM on June 5, 2013 | IP
ezekieljd

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Quote from vBlueSki at 05:26 AM on December 6, 2012 :
The strangest thing happened to me. I denied the belief in God, and my life is better :D no curses here baabbbyy



Yeah...because God said you're going to be cursed immediately. OH WAIT! He didn't.

God said that like several thousand years ago. And then he had mercy by sending Jesus and you probably know all that stuff.

So please make a valid point next time

Please refute me, I'm always willing to learn!


-------

PLEASE refute me, I'm always willing to learn!

ezekieljd
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 5:25 PM on July 15, 2013 | IP
    
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