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applebiter

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All humans are born with the requisite hardware to acquire a religion or religious ideas. We also possess the necessary hardware to develop memory, intellect, and rational thought, instead. It's time that good people and smart people take a stand against brainwashing another generation of children into irrationalism.

We fear religiously motivated terrorists, and some of us fear the potential that exists for our own governments to manipulate the greater portion of the population, using the irrational religious beliefs held by a majority of the population as leverage against the thinking set.

Theists have posited that the only reason people behave morally is because they fear the kinds of punishment that religious texts promise await those who sin. Actually, there is evidence to support that altruism and cooperation were traits that helped us to survive in desperate times as early hominids. We don't need God to be good. In fact, were it not for religion, then good people would do good things and bad people would do bad things. It is because of religion that good people do bad things.

And, it's because good, smart people often keep their opinions to themselves that the theists have managed to transmit their mental infection so successfully. Where the civil among us have been taught tolerance and acceptance, the theists have not. Where the civil have remained silent over the issue of religion in order to avoid confrontation, the theists are taught to proselytize and shout down the gentle voice of reason.

It's time for every thinking person to accept the social hazards that come with speaking truth. That means it is time to break the taboo that prevents speaking out against religion. And, in the end, conversation is the only tool we have and it's the only one we need. Irrational beliefs cannot stand up against reason in the arena of conversation and debate. Only the implicit threat of violence, or the cynical manipulation of various fears can override plain reason. Such threats and manipulations can be identified and dismissed through the application of logic and Rogerian debate.

All we have to do to win back our country and  Western civilization itself is keep talking. Do not let theists bully you into silence.
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 5:37 PM on June 19, 2006 | IP
zerocool_12790

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applebiter,


You ramble with passion, you should fit in well amongst the unbelievers in this forum...

To show how little intelligence went into your post, I  need merely to direct the public's attention to this passage:

"Theists have posited that the only reason people behave morally is because they fear the kinds of punishment that religious texts promise await those who sin."

Since you use the word "theist" I can only make the educated guess that you are being prejudiced against any religion believing in a god or gods. Since my beliefs fall into that category then you attack me as well. Not the best way to make an entrance but to each his own. In any event your baseless claim is illogical when applied to Biblical Christianity. Christians (according to the Bible) do not behave morally "only" because they fear punishment. Is punishment part of Christian doctrine? Sure. But is that the sole reason to be moral? No. Do I cease slaughtering a household of children because I fear the punishment from God only? No. I choose to be moral because it is the right thing to do. Christians choose to be moral because their Savior, Jesus, died for them. Is it too much to ask that we therefore live for the One who saved us out of love? We do good for His sake, not because we fear being punished. Although punishment is involved in Christian doctrine it is not used as the sole motivator for being a decent person. So in this you are mistaken.

"We don't need God to be good. In fact, were it not for religion, then good people would do good things and bad people would do bad things. It is because of religion that good people do bad things."

This passage is ridiculous for the mere fact that you would not be able to define "good" or "bad" apart from the existence of the God of the Bible. If God didn't exist then neither would moral concepts. Although there have been some to postulate that morals arose in order to preserve our species, these are just speculations, not facts.

Instead of acting crazy and having people ban religion, I believe the best thing would be to prevent nonsense like your beliefs from infecting anyone.

best wishes,


zerocool_12790


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---There is a common belief rapidly spreading, which states that scientists are unquestionably ethical and objective. This is a gross myth that must be stopped before scientists claim it’s true.
 


Posts: 37 | Posted: 01:27 AM on June 20, 2006 | IP
applebiter

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Quite right. Christians claim to do good works to please God and be Christlike. It sounds good. However, there is an implicit assumption that without the benefit of a Christian belief system that people would not do good works. Patently false. You would have to present convincing evidence to support such a claim, had you made the claim directly. But you dare not make that claim, because it is unsupportable.

Your second point is just silly. I will respond to it later when I have more time to sit and chat.
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 1:19 PM on June 20, 2006 | IP
birchie1983

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Personally, I don't subscribe a particular religion. I believe in the Bible word for word. The Bible says that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and that no one goes to heaven except through Him. Jesus never taught that a particular religion is the way to God, He taught that He was the only way.

But the end result of all this - I am still what you would call a theist. You cannot comprehend what it is like to be what we called "born again". God is with you, and we don't really have the desire to do what you would call "bad".

What Zero here has pointed out here is precisly right. Without Biblical morals from which most of the worlds definition of right and wrong comes from, you have no basis for an argument.

Here is another point the greek meaning of religion means to bind, yet in Christ we are set free. That speaks for itself. All these Biblical references are in the Bible and if yo wish me to quote chapter and verse I will, but since you are who you are, I doubt you'd find that of much use.



"It's time for every thinking person to accept the social hazards that come with speaking truth. That means it is time to break the taboo that prevents speaking out against religion."

Please do not make the mistake in thinking you are incurring ridicule for this. Christianity is marred my people dying as martyrs for what they believed in. I recall no such evidence of an athiest being killed for speaking out against christiantiy...as I recall you were the very type of people killed our brothers in Christ.

Now as you were saying...Christians are bad (i.e. theists as you have kindly lumped us)...I think not. Learn some history first before you come and make sensationalist claims (and such general claims i might add) about people such as myself.
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 11:17 PM on June 20, 2006 | IP
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“However, there is an implicit assumption that without the benefit of a Christian belief system that people would not do good works.”

What implicit assumption?…who said that a man who does not believe in God will not do any good works? Like Zero and Birchie commented, our whole knowledge of “good and bad” comes from God’s influence. This knowledge is now an intrinsic quality of secular norms. If God did not exist (notice I’m not saying if a man does not believe in God), how can you assume that humans would still have this notion of good or bad? It seems that the only “implicit assumption” being made is that this idea of good and bad exists in nature – I can not see any proof of a soul or conscience in the animal kingdom…

“All humans are born with the requisite hardware to acquire a religion or religious ideas.”

This is an interesting point in light of Birchie’s insight into the origin of the word religion. Please do not confuse religion and God. The Bible does not preach a specific religion or set of religious beliefs, simply a belief in Jesus Christ and His resurrection. It’s interesting that religion is often a tool created and exploited by MEN, not God, to control people, which effectively contradicts your own argument…

“Where the civil among us have been taught tolerance and acceptance, the theists have not.”

Besides being offensive, this comment is irrational, general and false. Believing in God and the Bible (i.e a theist) does not make a person intolerant and close-minded. What is the point of being so “open-minded” if you are unwilling to think outside social norms and assumptions and accept the possibility of God? What is the point of asking questions without the goal of an answer? And if you are referring to certain “religious” beliefs not teaching tolerance and acceptance just think about who actually created those doctrines, men or God?…



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"A great many open minds should be closed for repairs"
- Toledo Blade
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 11:58 PM on June 20, 2006 | IP
Demon38

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What implicit assumption?…who said that a man who does not believe in God will not do any good works?

Many creationists on this very site say this!  

Like Zero and Birchie commented, our whole knowledge of “good and bad” comes from God’s influence.

Unsupported claim, our whole knowledge of good and bad does NOT come from God.

This knowledge is now an intrinsic quality of secular norms. If God did not exist (notice I’m not saying if a man does not believe in God), how can you assume that humans would still have this notion of good or bad?

Good and bad is subjective, in order to support your claim, you have to give us evidence that God made clear what is good and bad.  The Bible sure doesn't support that, since it contradicts itself on morality all the time.  We can assume humans would still have a notion of good and bad because the concepts of good and bad make living in a community possible and also because we have no evidence that God gave us these concepts.

It seems that the only “implicit assumption” being made is that this idea of good and bad exists in nature – I can not see any proof of a soul or conscience in the animal kingdom…

But that's not what you're asking, we see no evidence of a soul in anything, but we do see that other communal animals have their own morality.  So yes, we do see other animals in nature with their own concepts of good and bad.

Besides being offensive, this comment is irrational, general and false. Believing in God and the Bible (i.e a theist) does not make a person intolerant and close-minded.

And yet it is historically true...


 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:54 AM on June 21, 2006 | IP
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You have seemed to completely overlook my central point that belief in God or His principles does not cause "good people to do bad things", but rather belief in religious doctrine created by man.

"Unsupported claim, our whole knowledge of good and bad does NOT come from God."

The claim that it does not is equally unsupported. There is no point arguing that unless you could prove without a doubt that God has never existed. Yes good and bad is subjective, however, I believe the Bible makes very clear what is moral and immoral. I guess it boils down to whether or not you understand it correctly as to whether you think certain things are contradictory.

"but we do see that other communal animals have their own morality"

I was specifically referring to socially normal concepts of good and bad not occuring in nature. Of course, good and bad are subjective but there are norms existing in human society which are not present in animal communities.

"And yet it is historically true..."

What is historically true? That belief in doctrines established by men makes men close-minded?



-------
"A great many open minds should be closed for repairs"
- Toledo Blade
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 02:55 AM on June 21, 2006 | IP
birchie1983

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Let me re-hash this argument...get back onto topic here.

Applebiter said this:

"It's time for every thinking person to accept the social hazards that come with speaking truth. That means it is time to break the taboo that prevents speaking out against religion. And, in the end, conversation is the only tool we have and it's the only one we need. Irrational beliefs cannot stand up against reason in the arena of conversation and debate. Only the implicit threat of violence, or the cynical manipulation of various fears can override plain reason. Such threats and manipulations can be identified and dismissed through the application of logic and Rogerian debate.

All we have to do to win back our country and  Western civilization itself is keep talking. Do not let theists bully you into silence."

Ironically, (this is quite funny actualy) applebiter said that "Where the civil among us have been taught tolerance and acceptance, the theists have not." But in my last quotation he is displaying intolerance. Talk about a contradiction. Tell me: why should you preach about us Christians being intolerant, when I find applebiter and demon to be intolerant of our beliefs?

Somewhere along the line you athiests are going to have to admit fully that you are at the very least - as intolerant as we are.

Evidently because of each view represented here is completly different, no one can substantiate any claims. I ask an Athiest "how do you know there is no God?" Some will respond that they don't know, some say there just can't be, but no athiest can say that science disproves it 100%, there are too many unknown variables. So basically they accept this on faith, because they'd rather live in deep dark sin and without Jesus, than try live a life under Christ, whome they have to be accountable to.

So far I have raised the issues, that athiests have faith as well as Christians, just the matter of faith is different. Also What I have raised, is the it seems that athiests are just as intolerable as Christians.

Now I ask you, would it be better for this world to be filled with people that live to a moral standard, are willing to help others out and live a good rich life, or self centered people who do not subscribe them to healthy moral standards. Noting that most mass murderers come from this athiestic group, as a true christian could not commit such a crime.
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 04:51 AM on June 21, 2006 | IP
birchie1983

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I don't want to sound like applebiter in my last post, I am just countering his argument. Also Please don't confuse God and religion. refer to my previous post in regards to this
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 04:57 AM on June 21, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Basically, the very center of this argument is a moot point.  Atheists will state that morality exists and God doesn't, therefore they are correct (by their thinking) that God (who does not exist) is obviously not needed for morality to exist.  Jews, Christians, Catholics, Methodists, etc... will say that God created us in His image and that morality exists because God created it.  Therefore, by their thinking, they are also correct.  This argument cannot be successfully argued between an atheists and faithful.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 7:22 PM on June 21, 2006 | IP
birchie1983

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I agree.
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 7:29 PM on June 21, 2006 | IP
applebiter

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I actually made a mistake when I used the term "theist". Fact is, I'm a theist. I have a personal belief that we are a part of a much greater intelligence that operates in ways we can't wrap our intellect around.

My problem is the essential dishonesty of religion. While I support one's right to believe in God, I do not believe the claims made by individuals and religions to know what God wants/thinks/needs. Christians, for example, believe that God's will can be known by reading a book that was penned by men who were inspired by God. How do they know this? Because the authors said so. In addition to this "evidence", they have the fact that millions - no - billions of people have believed in it for thousands of years. They can't all be wrong, can they?

But I think it is intellectually dishonest to ignore the fact that people are taught religious ideas very early on, before they have the ability to understand that it is okay to doubt the veracity of the claims, or the authority of those whom they trust implicitly to teach them how the world works. Consequently, by the time adulthood rolls around, such religious indoctrination is central to one's very identity. To question the validity of these ideas becomes not only difficult, but painful as well.

My bottom line is that a naturalistic worldview and the scientific method go hand in hand, and they are far superior tools for helping us to navigate through the wilderness, because they help us to always doubt, always question theories and ideas, and to hold intellectual honesty as an ideal.

Regarding religion and morality, I think I could list incidents and items all night of atrocities committed in the name of one god or another. It's just too easy. We can argue point by point, I don't care. It goes back to intellectual honesty. Just one example: look at Japan. Much fewer incidences of immoral crimes (stealing, killing, etc), and much more orderly, too, than any Western nation. Japan is a secular nation.

(Edited by applebiter 6/21/2006 at 10:46 PM).
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 10:41 PM on June 21, 2006 | IP
birchie1983

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so whats ur point?
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 07:25 AM on June 22, 2006 | IP
applebiter

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The point is that organized religion causes suffering, breeds intolerance and hatred, and limits the cognitive faculties of children indoctrinated into it for the rest of their lives, or until they release themselves from its constraints. Ergo, religion has no place in the classroom. Creationism is not equal to, on a par with, or just another "theory" like, evolution.
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 11:00 AM on June 22, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Which is also why most Christians do not belong to organized religions.  There is a reason that organized religions have their own names (Catholics, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc.).  They don't wish to be confused with Christians.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 11:19 AM on June 22, 2006 | IP
birchie1983

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So what right to you have to pass judgment on something you yourself have, from what  I can tell, no experience in?

Why say that religion has no place? Why not concentrate, lets say, drugs, sexual abuse, guns, something else the actually breeds and I quote , "intolerance and hatred" in the classroom. And as far as I can tell, it does not limit our cognitive sides. Wouldn't it be fair to say you are limited since you world is limited to the here and now? Wouldn't I be fair to say your view is limited since you can't see past a few people/religions that actually ruin Christs name?

I believe Jesus Christ has the equal right to be represented in the classroom or am I living in a fantasy to think that I live in a free country, indeed a free world, that I can have what I believe in represented? What "equality" do we have if we are limited to what can be represented?

EMyers is 100% correct in saying, and pointing out that you can't bunch people in the category of organised religion. Once again you generalise. And because you generalise so much, you can't possibly comprehend the bigger picture.


 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 9:16 PM on June 22, 2006 | IP
applebiter

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You aren't paying attention. I support your right to hold any belief you want. I do not support your desire to suggest to my children that your baseless, irrational, religious beliefs are somehow equivalent to scientific theories regarding cosmology, evolution, etc.

The problem is that the pro-religion posts on this board are filled with formal and informal logical fallacies (faulty reasoning), and the authors don't even have the self-awareness to recognize this. It just illustrates my point about having a cognitive handicap. It isn't that you couldn't be taught how to reason logically, it's just that you don't even recognize the value of reason and intellectual honesty. Why bother when your pastor/priest/rabbi/mullah can tell you what to think and how to live, and what god wants you to do next?

It takes courage to stop clinging to externalized authority and to own your own perceptions and behaviors. It takes strength to develop the necessary faculties to accomplish it.
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 02:40 AM on June 23, 2006 | IP
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I was brought up as a Catholic, never doubting what the priest said as he was a "religious scholar" and had studied the Bible for as long as a doctor studies medicine...I agree it is difficult it is to stop clinging to external authority and make your own decisions. Parents will always teach their children the beliefs they hold true - its always been that way and it always will.
I guess the point I was getting to is that priests may study the Bible using their "human intellect" for years and years until they completely analyse and intellectualise it making it appear a shadow of what it actually is...
This is one of the reason's I do not base my beliefs on what other human's say and do, human intellect has proved itself unworthy on many occasions. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is worthless - its an amazing thing and should be used to its full potential. I'm just saying humans can also be close-minded to their own intellect, trapped in the realm of science and logic...Basically, as Emyers said earlier this cannot be argued sucessfully by Christian's and non-Christians. Christians will always know that God's inspiration is superior to a human intellect, however this belief rests in believing the Bible to be the Word of God, its a catch-22...


-------
"A great many open minds should be closed for repairs"
- Toledo Blade
 


Posts: 16 | Posted: 03:43 AM on June 23, 2006 | IP
birchie1983

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Religious arguments can carry on forever and no one finding common ground, because one's world view is the here and now, and the other, is based on the way the Bible see's it. So really, if you are going to ask a religious question you are going to get a religious answer.

You have to respect the fact we believe in God, the Bible and Jesus. Imagine 2 circles, the religious people believe in something supernatural ( the big circle) yet we also live in the world of science logic and reason the smaller circle in the big circle. If you cannot expand your circle to acknowledge that we understand the implications of science and logic as well as God, to us God logic, because he made us.

You said this earlier:
"You aren't paying attention. I support your right to hold any belief you want. I do not support your desire to suggest to my children that your baseless, irrational, religious beliefs are somehow equivalent to scientific theories regarding cosmology, evolution, etc."

Then what you are saying is basically we should move underground be "out of the way" "go away, believe somewhere else privatly". On the same token why should I subject my children to what I would call irrational beliefs in believing that God doesn't exist. I want my children to know about God in schools. What gives you the right to only want what you want, just because you are absolutly 100% sure that you are correct, when I hold that true for what I believe?

You also said this:
"The problem is that the pro-religion posts on this board are filled with formal and informal logical fallacies (faulty reasoning)..."

same is true for you, I haven't seen you back up your claims that God doesn't exist, to the best of what I can tell, you say in effect "he doesn't exist because I know so..." or its "illogical". I say you are completly nuts (illogical) not to recognise the possibility the God exists. I work in a very logical environment, I am an accountant, and things fall in place because they just to, logic doesn't excape me, so Its fair to say I am level headed.

You stated this:
"It takes courage to stop clinging to externalized authority and to own your own perceptions and behaviors. It takes strength to develop the necessary faculties to accomplish it."

Same is true to entrust you life to Jesus Christ and to acomplish His goals. Yet again you are making a general statment that could be applied to a large number of different things.

No one tells me what to do or how to live my life. The Bible says "Test all things" If a priest or pastor says anything I disagree with I will look it up in the Bible, testing true, I have been proven wrong and visa versa.

As two others have pointed out...u are obviously secular, and we are non secular, and because of this it is extremly difficult to to reach common ground because of the different world views. You are trying to say we do not grasp logic and are limited. Same is true for us on the other shoe...you cannot grasp what we are saying and in effect - you are the one is limited, and thus this argument goes in circles.






 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 04:09 AM on June 23, 2006 | IP
birchie1983

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My main point is:

Why should we give up the right to have what we want taught vs what you want? Can you see what  I am getting at? Lets say you are a parent and one child asks you for sweets, and you say no. The other asks the same question and you say yes. The other child you refused asks again, and you say no because its not good for you. Its just plain unfair. So why limit what out schools teach just because u think you're right. Have you ever been so sure you were right and someone prooved you wrong? What if you are wrong about God? Then everyone else who was right about God misses out because of your arrogance?
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 04:16 AM on June 23, 2006 | IP
applebiter

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You keep making the same mistakes.

Here's your first, brief lesson in reasoning. It's not my job to do your intellectual heavy lifting for you, so take this bit of info and run with it.

Religion is not falsifiable.  That is to say, it is impossible to prove a negative. You could just as successfully ask me to prove that you are not an ambassador from another planet. So, the fact that no one can disprove your religion is not something you should shout about too proudly, because the educated response is, "Well, duh."

Science is not a religion, and it is not a belief system. Science is a tool, and an ethic. Science constantly questions our assumptions about the universe in order to do exactly what religions abhor - find fault with current ideas and theories. The beauty of science is that as new information enters the realm of science, older theories have to change in order to accommodate the newfound facts.

The ethic of science admits the existence of human fallibility. For instance, we all know that sometimes people want a theory to be true so badly that they will practice bad science in order to prove it. The scientific method, when properly applied, helps to prevent this. And when it does not, peer review by other scientists will discover fraud sooner or later.

I never said that god doesn't exist, or that I want his non-existence to be taught as a fact in public schools. That is either a straw man argument on your part, or a failure to pay attention. I'm saying that religious ideas have no place in public classrooms because they are based on irrationality.

If you tell me you know what god wants/needs/thinks, then you are going to have to show me evidence to support such an extraordinary claim. If you cannot show me evidence with any merit, then do not tell my younguns that you know what god wants. Period.
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 09:17 AM on June 23, 2006 | IP
slowdownandthink

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im afraid religon does cause suffering. the crusades is one example, the inquisition involved torture of jews, the opus dei tortured as well, and then theres the holocaust...


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Think before you jump.

Equality is the only fair thing.

Question all your beliefs before you believe them, you might find you dont believe them.
 


Posts: 18 | Posted: 9:14 PM on July 17, 2006 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

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Aren't those examples more of suffering caused by the people rather than religion itself? Differences in religious ideals causes conflict, yes, but so does almost every other difference between man: where people live, their ethnicity and cultural background, race, etc.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 9:51 PM on July 17, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Precisely.  People used religion as their excuse.  If they didn't have that, they'd have used something else.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 11:46 PM on July 17, 2006 | IP
slowdownandthink

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the crusades was a war for religious territory of religious importance

the inquisition persecuted jews because they didnt agree with christianity

Opus Dei tortured for the same reason as inquisistors

The Holocaust happened because when hitler was a younger he tried to beecome an art student and when he wasn't accepted he blindly thought Jews were the reason because he wasn't accepted and constantly spoke of Jews as the problem of the country. If there had been no religon he would have had to say artists are evil and no one in thier right mind would have accepted that.

Plus the only way religon even CAN harm someone is if someone does something. be it self-afflicted wanted or not wanted.

p.s. the opus dei also do cause themselves harm though nowhere near the extent the da vinci code claims.

(Edited by slowdownandthink 7/18/2006 at 02:27 AM).


-------
Think before you jump.

Equality is the only fair thing.

Question all your beliefs before you believe them, you might find you dont believe them.
 


Posts: 18 | Posted: 02:25 AM on July 18, 2006 | IP
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Plus the only way religon even CAN harm someone is if someone does something. be it self-afflicted wanted or not wanted.


That’s the point. Religion can’t harm anyone. Fanatics claiming to follow religion do that.

The Holocaust happened because when hitler was a younger he tried to beecome an art student and when he wasn't accepted he blindly thought Jews were the reason because he wasn't accepted and constantly spoke of Jews as the problem of the country. If there had been no religon he would have had to say artists are evil and no one in thier right mind would have accepted that.


I’m seeing your logic like this: “If there had been no Jews, there would have been no Holocaust.”

Likewise, if there had been no human beings, there would have been no Holocaust. If there had been no strife for Germans suffering from a cruelly unjust economic breakdown following the First World War, there would have been no Holocaust.

There were practically countless factors contributing to the genocide. If the Jews had not existed, Hitler would have most easily have found someone else to blame. Don’t forget that five million other people died alongside the Jews in the Holocaust, among them Slavs, gypsies, homosexuals, and communists. Hitler hated all of those people practically just as much as he hated Jews.

(And for the record, Hitler also put a great many artists to death.)


This whole argument assumes that other genocides don’t happen, which is not true. In Africa, there is almost constant genocide occurring, whether it be in the Congo, Algeria, Somalia, or Darfur. The peoples of the Balkans in Europe have suffered genocide amongst themselves for centuries. The key factor is not religion in any of the cases I’ve listed.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
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Posts: 729 | Posted: 12:33 PM on July 18, 2006 | IP
42h6Fh62h

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Well I was sure wrong. Since Mao and Stalin prohibited and nearly eliminated religion in Russia and China, there CAN'T be any "suffering" their.
Now I've got to figure out how you oppress, indoctrinate and murder millions of people without "suffering"?
So, the reason some of you treat ALL religion with disrespect, rudeness, intolerance and malice is because religious people (you do not identify, and probably don't know) have been rude, intolerant or disrespectful to SOMEONE ELSE (whom you also probably don't know). Ya, being called names and belittled for believing in a God is a LOT nicer than being told I'm going to hell for believing in God incorrectly. I may as well have some variety if I'm going to be lectured by arrogant self-appointed arbitors of "truth".


(Edited by 42h6Fh62h 5/21/2007 at 12:25 PM).
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 11:58 AM on May 21, 2007 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

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Well I was sure wrong. Since Mao and Stalin prohibited and nearly eliminated religion in Russia and China, there CAN'T be any "suffering" their.
Now I've got to figure out how you oppress, indoctrinate and murder millions of people without "suffering"?
So, the reason some of you treat ALL religion with disrespect, rudeness, intolerance and malice is because religious people (you do not identify, and probably don't know) have been rude, intolerant or disrespectful to SOMEONE ELSE (whom you also probably don't know). Ya, being called names and belittled for believing in a God is a LOT nicer than being told I'm going to hell for believing in God incorrectly. I may as well have some variety if I'm going to be lectured by arrogant self-appointed arbitors of "truth".


Which post are you referring to? Certainly not any of mine.


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 7:41 PM on May 21, 2007 | IP
    
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