PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Creationism vs Evolution Debates
     Pre-med and Evolution

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Very interesting article, from here:

Medical Students May Soon Be Tested on Evolution

"ScienceDaily (Jan. 25, 2010) — What does evolution -- a field that often deals with changes over many generations -- have to do with preventing and treating disease in our lifetime? A lot, some scientists say. If recent recommendations are implemented, future physicians may soon be tested on evolution in medical entrance and licensing exams, says an international group of doctors and researchers.
A collection of articles in the January 26 issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences illustrates recent progress in applying evolutionary theory to a range of questions in medicine and public health, from why some people age slower and live longer than others, to why humans suffer from mental illnesses like autism and schizophrenia, to why we have higher rates of cancer than other species.

"There are many ways you can use evolution to improve medical care and medical research," said psychiatrist Randolph Nesse of the University of Michigan.

Nesse is one of a growing number of scientists who since the mid-1990s have been urging medical doctors and researchers to consider human health from an evolutionary perspective. Evolutionary training may benefit researchers in the lab, skeptics argue, but what use is evolution for everyday medical care in the clinic?  "In terms of immediate payoffs, right up at the top of the list are antibiotic resistance and cancer," said Stephen Stearns, a biologist at Yale University. Because of their rapid rates of reproduction, both bacteria and cancer cells quickly evolve resistance to the drugs we use to fight them. "Some develop resistance in just one or two years after drug release," explained Diddahally Govindaraju of the Boston University School of Medicine. "Antibiotic resistance and resistance to chemotherapy are problems that cause enormous suffering and death and also sky-high costs," added Stearns. "We can alleviate these problems if we manage the way we use chemotherapy drugs and antibiotics so as to slow or prevent the evolution of resistance." "

Welcome to the 21st century.  Evolution just keeps getting more important to humanity.

 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:23 AM on February 1, 2010 | IP
Lester10

|     |       Report Post



Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"We can alleviate these problems if we manage the way we use chemotherapy drugs and antibiotics so as to slow or prevent the evolution of resistance." "


Evolution meaning more correctly variation or adaptation and sometimes degenerative mutations that happen to be useful under certain circumstances.

So we all agree that those things occur.

The deception of course is the conflation of micro and macro. Show the people the minor variation and what mutations can do and tell them that this is evolution in an attempt to get everybody to believe the BIG story of macroevolution. From reality to imagination in one sly move.

Pretty tricky!

Welcome to the 21st century.  Evolution just keeps getting more important to humanity.


Time to crawl out of the Darwinian dark ages and face the limits of change Demon38.

People are getting wise to the deceptive extrapolations of Dariwnian storytellers.

People are going to start thinking you're deliberately attempting to deceive them, when the reality may be that your imagination just goes way beyond the evidence.


-------
Richard Lewontin: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism... no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door”
 


Posts: 1554 | Posted: 09:56 AM on February 1, 2010 | IP
Demon38

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Time to crawl out of the Darwinian dark ages and face the limits of change
Demon38.


The facts speak for themselves.  The theory of evolution continues to become more and more useful the better we understand it.  Evolution is a fact of life, it's only common sense that doctors better understand it.

People are getting wise to the deceptive extrapolations of Dariwnian storytellers.

As we can see "people" doesn't include doctors, biologists, chemists, industrialists and anyone with any intelligence.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 4:41 PM on February 1, 2010 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Lester, if you have anything to say about micro and macro, there's a specific thread (which you abandoned, as usual).

And what do you know about intelligence?

What's your IQ?



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 6:15 PM on February 1, 2010 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Let me guess:

In my head I see IQ test designers as pompous self-inflated evolutionists inventing stories and then throwing a tantrum when people more pragmatic than themselves point out the absurdity of their fantasies, and lamenting the ridiculousness of the practical objections of those less ‘qualified’ than themselves.

Is that right?

I mean, you sure need a weird definition of "intelligence" if you want to qualify as an intelligent person.


(Edited by wisp 2/1/2010 at 6:21 PM).


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 6:20 PM on February 1, 2010 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It would be even more useful if they tested psychologists.

In Argentina psychologists suck.

I'm better than they are at understanding (and predicting) sexual behavior in general, simply because i understand Evolution and they usually don't.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 6:41 PM on February 1, 2010 | IP
Fencer27

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from wisp at 6:15 PM on February 1, 2010 :
Lester, if you have anything to say about micro and macro, there's a specific thread (which you abandoned, as usual).

And what do you know about intelligence?

What's your IQ?



Now now, lets be fair, IQ tests are not determinative of intelligence, only indicate. They are not a reliable source to determine intelligence.


-------
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 05:06 AM on February 17, 2010 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Of course, of course.

But, that being the case, this indeterminacy can work both ways, so it IS fair.

Their accuracy depends on your definition of "intelligence".

You could define it as "ability to solve IQ test problems".

I define it as "understanding", which is (i know) quite vague.

If Lester designed tests they would ask "Do you understand that Jesus is your personal savior and the Bible is the inerrant word of God?". That's "understanding" to him.

IQ tests seem quite fair in comparison.



-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 7:13 PM on February 18, 2010 | IP
Fencer27

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from wisp at 7:13 PM on February 18, 2010 :

You could define it as "ability to solve IQ test problems".

I define it as "understanding", which is (i know) quite vague.


I think intelligence is defined as the ability to understand and apply that understanding. Of course I'd also incorporate time as well, the faster you can do this the higher your intelligence, and then there is the retaining factor/memory.

If Lester designed tests they would ask "Do you understand that Jesus is your personal savior and the Bible is the inerrant word of God?". That's "understanding" to him.

IQ tests seem quite fair in comparison.



Lol, when you put it that way. Although, while my dad was never a part of MENSA, when working on his doctorate he was invited to one of their parties. He said he went, however after interacting with some of the supposedly most intelligent people alive, he told me that he concluded that "some of them were as dumb as door knobs." And since being in college, one of my friends actual qualifies to be in MENSA, and he ain't the sharpest person to ever walk the face of the Earth either. I don't know how, but he was able to fail film 101 twice! So while I'll agree that the IQ test can be used as a correlation, I have my reserves on the total accuracy of the whole thing.

(Edited by Fencer27 2/26/2010 at 08:09 AM).


-------
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 08:08 AM on February 26, 2010 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You're very right. I forgot about time and applied skills.

My IQ is quite high (i qualify for Mensa), but that's partly explained because i'm kinda IQ-test savvy.

When facing real-life problems i'm suddenly not as smart as my IQ would indicate.

Sometimes the planets line up and i get the coolest ideas, but it normally takes an effort.

Intelligence is a multi-layered thing, and most people have some stronger and weaker layers.

"Total accuracy" actually makes no sense, even though it looks like it does.

"Accuracy" means "proximity to the true value". And there is no true (objective) value of "intelligence". It's always conventional.

IQ is just one among many possible conventions.

But i think most conventions (if not every single one of them) will show an inverse correlation between intelligence and religiosity, and very few creationist will get high scores.


(Edited by wisp 2/26/2010 at 10:57 AM).


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 10:57 AM on February 26, 2010 | IP
Fencer27

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Very true, my strong and weak areas are so disproportional you'd think they were from two different test takers. I know if I ever decided to work on my weak areas I'd easily qualify for Mensa. I may make it my summer goal if I get bored.

But you are right, total accuracy does make no sense.

I got to get to chem lab, and then I'll be headed out to a Christian campus retreat for the weekend, so I probably wouldn't be posting until Monday or Tuesday. See all of you then.


-------
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
 


Posts: 551 | Posted: 2:11 PM on February 26, 2010 | IP
wisp

|      |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I bet you go there to look around and feel like a genius.


-------
Quote from Lester10 at 2:51 PM on September 21, 2010 in the thread
Scientists assert (by Lester):

Ha Ha. (...) I've told you people endlessly about my evidence but you don't want to show me yours - you just assert.
porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)?
Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com
 


Posts: 3037 | Posted: 11:35 AM on February 27, 2010 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.