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Demon38

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Interesting research on the origins of the universe!  From here:
BigBang
"NEW YORK - Two Americans won a Nobel prize Tuesday for taking baby pictures of the universe.
George F. Smoot of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California and John C. Mather of NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland were awarded science’s highest honor for depicting the universe as it was 380,000 years after its birth in the Big Bang.
Their feat, precisely measuring the faint light that revealed the seeds of today’s galaxies and superclusters, affirmed the big-bang theory to even the most stubborn skeptics."

As we continue to learn more about the origin of our universe, we can say with a unbelievably great amount of confidence that the universe is much, much closer to 14 billion years old than it is to 6000.




 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 10:58 PM on October 3, 2006 | IP
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That's some pretty awesome info. Nice find. I'd be much more into astronomy myself if there wasn't so much math involved.


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http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
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Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:15 PM on October 3, 2006 | IP
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Why are you trying to find out the origins of the Universe.. you are gonna die eventually..what does it matter?

You can die at anytime.. you dont know how much time you got left.

Again.. proof that God created everything
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 11:58 PM on October 8, 2006 | IP
Demon38

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Why are you trying to find out the origins of the Universe.. you are gonna die eventually..what does it matter?

Man is naturally curious!  And just because we don't know the benefit of that knowledge now, doesn't mean we won't be able to apply it practically in the future.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:09 AM on October 9, 2006 | IP
Demon38

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Again.. proof that God created
everything


No proof of any god at all...And no proof for any god creating anything.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:11 AM on October 9, 2006 | IP
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That is fascinating. The only problem is I want to SEE the actual pictures. I am curious :D
 


Posts: 12 | Posted: 01:37 AM on October 9, 2006 | IP
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" Why are you trying to find out the origins of the Universe.. you are gonna die eventually..what does it matter?

You can die at anytime.. you dont know how much time you got left.

Again.. proof that God created everything "


Jetsunn, are you serious?

Even the most stubborn creationist with an IQ of a 5 year old knows that you are out of your mind for postulating that the desire of an intelligent being to fully understand their environment is a staple evidence of the existence of god is delusional. In fact it is great evidence in support for anti-creationist views, As animals who have a better understanding of their environment have a better likelihood to survive and prosper, therefore it is human nature to understand all of their vast environment.

And to suggest that it is ridiculous to discover more about our history is feeble and that it supports proof of god is not any type of argument at all.

I am quite positive that most if not all people on this forum will have no trouble in agreeing with me.




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Posts: 5 | Posted: 5:04 PM on December 13, 2006 | IP
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I have one question about the "Big Bang", where did the stuff that made it come from? The whole idea presume another universe before this one, if so where did that universe come from?


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 7:51 PM on January 7, 2007 | IP
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I have one question about the "Big Bang", where did the stuff that made it come from? The whole idea presume another universe before this one, if so where did that universe come from?


The material for the previous universe is made of the same material as this one. Matter cannot be destroyed. There was never a point where the universe didn't exist.


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http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
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Posts: 729 | Posted: 8:51 PM on January 7, 2007 | IP
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So what you are saying is that their was never a beginning?

Than why try to make one up. Science is about observing the facts. If you cannot make an experiment to prove your hypothesis than it cannot go past that point. I have as of yet to see someone reproduce the big bang. You must also be able to directly observe the experiment. As far as I know no one on this planet has witnessed the big bang nor has any one that ever lived.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 10:50 PM on January 7, 2007 | IP
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So what you are saying is that their was never a beginning?


Correct.

Than why try to make one up. Science is about observing the facts. If you cannot make an experiment to prove your hypothesis than it cannot go past that point. I have as of yet to see someone reproduce the big bang.


lol

You must also be able to directly observe the experiment. As far as I know no one on this planet has witnessed the big bang nor has any one that ever lived.


Totally irrelevant. We know the universe is expanding--a fact repeatedly verified--and that there will be a point when the universe can expand no longer. The expansion's momentum requires a source, as we observe the center of the universe, we find that the majority of its mass is right there.

Starting with the misconception that the Big Bang was an explosion is not a good way to start.

A presitigious cosmologist, P. J. E. Peebles, pointed the following out in the January 2001 edition of Scientific American on page 44: "That the universe is expanding and cooling is the essence of the big bang theory. You will notice I have said nothing about an 'explosion' - the big bang theory describes how our universe is evolving, not how it began."

The Big Bang is happening right now. The cycle has been in the expansion process for trillions of years.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 8:04 PM on January 8, 2007 | IP
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How do you know that the universe is expanding? All of the data that you have if between 4 years to 14 billion years old.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 8:31 PM on January 8, 2007 | IP
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How do you know that the universe is expanding? All of the data that you have if between 4 years to 14 billion years old.


Uh, we're watching it expand right now.




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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 10:33 PM on January 8, 2007 | IP
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However what you see now is like saying that, America is losing WWII from footage from the first hour of D Day.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 5:11 PM on January 9, 2007 | IP
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However what you see now is like saying that, America is losing WWII from footage from the first hour of D Day.


You're going to have to explain this one for me.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 5:52 PM on January 9, 2007 | IP
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We know that America won WWII, because we live further ahead in time. But we do not know what will happen in Iraq because we are living it now. I am trying to say that the information gained from astronomy is old and out dated. By the time that you find out about what happened today at the outer reaches of the universal, the human race will no longer exist


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:27 PM on January 9, 2007 | IP
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We know that America won WWII, because we live further ahead in time. But we do not know what will happen in Iraq because we are living it now. I am trying to say that the information gained from astronomy is old and out dated. By the time that you find out about what happened today at the outer reaches of the universal, the human race will no longer exist


That only aids the case that the Earth is billions of years old. Most of the light that is reaching Earth from other stars now is hundreds of millions of years old.


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:21 PM on January 9, 2007 | IP
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When did I say it wasn't? Just because I'm a Creationist, does not mean that I subscribe to the young earth theory.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 12:21 AM on January 10, 2007 | IP
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A young earth is considered fact by everyone who doesn't believe in the macroevolution myth.  


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Posts: 1287 | Posted: 7:49 PM on January 11, 2007 | IP
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A young earth is considered fact by everyone who doesn't believe in the macroevolution myth.  

A young earth was falsified over 200 years ago by Christian geologists, well before the theory of evolution was even proposed.  Since that time, there has been absolutely no evidence found to support a young earth and a huge amount that falsifies it.  So much so that a young earth has been proved impossible and an age of 4.5 billion years is universally accepted by virtually all geologists.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:41 PM on January 11, 2007 | IP
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Quote from EMyers at 7:49 PM on January 11, 2007 :
A young earth is considered fact by everyone who doesn't believe in the macroevolution myth.  



I can prove that you are wrong. In order for your statement to be true there would have to not one exception, I am that exception.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:16 PM on January 11, 2007 | IP
EMyers

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Explain your old earth non-evolution opinion please.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 11:21 PM on January 11, 2007 | IP
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A young earth is considered fact by everyone who doesn't believe in the macroevolution myth.  


Ed, that simply isn't so. There are websites devoted to Old Earth Creationism, and they reject evolution just the same. Not all rejection of macroevolution is based on one's interpretation of Genesis.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:24 PM on January 11, 2007 | IP
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So there are people who believe that the world was created billions of years ago and that all species are exactly the same as when they were created?  I haven't run across any of these people.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 01:20 AM on January 12, 2007 | IP
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So there are people who believe that the world was created billions of years ago and that all species are exactly the same as when they were created?


From what I've gathered, they believe new species were simply created by God as time went on.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 07:36 AM on January 12, 2007 | IP
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I believe that animals can make slight changes, but that they can not evolve essential components for life from scratch.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 4:05 PM on January 12, 2007 | IP
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I believe that animals can make slight changes, but that they can not evolve essential components for life from scratch.

Give us an example of what "essential componenets" you think can't evolve...
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 9:28 PM on January 12, 2007 | IP
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The special double layer brain blood vessels.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 10:04 PM on January 12, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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The special double layer brain blood
vessels.


Why couldn't this double layer if blood vessels evolve?

(Edited by Demon38 1/13/2007 at 12:24 AM).
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 12:23 AM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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Because components of the blood will kill the brain cells. It would make no sense for the brain to evolve in such a way that it cannot tolerate components of the blood.


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Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 5:14 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
Demon38

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Because components of the blood will kill the brain cells.

You're going to have to be a lot more specific.  What components of blood kill brain cells?  Doesn't blood provide energy and oxygen to the brain?  Show me some evidence to support your claim....

It would make no sense for the brain to evolve in such a way that it cannot tolerate components of the blood.

And obviously it hasn't.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 8:52 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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This is what I'm talking about, if you want more information I will be glad to get it for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood-brain_barrier


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:34 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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This is what I'm talking about, if you want more information I will be glad to get it for
you.


Yes, please, because I see no problem in the evolution of the blood-brain barrier.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:17 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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If it took millions of years for it to form than every thing with a brain would die the first time that they got the smallest illness.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 11:22 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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If it took millions of years for it to form than every thing with a brain would die the first time that they got the smallest illness.

It coevolved with the brain, problem solved!
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:37 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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Why not make a more robust brain?


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 11:38 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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Why not make a more robust brain?

That's not how evolution works.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 11:42 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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It would be more feasible since the brain would have to be more robust before the barrier.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 11:44 PM on January 13, 2007 | IP
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It would be more feasible since the brain would have to be more robust before the barrier.

No it wouldn't because they evolved together.
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 12:11 AM on January 14, 2007 | IP
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Before the blood brain barrier was fully operational there would be nothing to protect the brain.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 10:55 AM on January 14, 2007 | IP
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Before the blood brain barrier was fully operational there would be nothing to protect the brain.


The question was already answered by Demon in the above post: the blood barrier and the brain evolved side by side.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:39 AM on January 14, 2007 | IP
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Even if they did the brain would still be vulnerable, unless the brain was more robust before the blood brain barrier became sufficient to protect it from infection.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 12:33 PM on January 14, 2007 | IP
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Even if they did the brain would still be vulnerable, unless the brain was more robust before the blood brain barrier became sufficient to protect it from infection.

Incorrect, if the evolved simultaneously, there would be no problem.  Do you have any evidence to back up your claim?
 


Posts: 1664 | Posted: 01:05 AM on January 16, 2007 | IP
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How would you propose the idea that the brain would protect its self from bacterial infection? Remembering that the bacteria can change faster than the brains defensive system.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 4:19 PM on January 30, 2007 | IP
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How would you propose the idea that the brain would protect its self from bacterial infection? Remembering that the bacteria can change faster than the brains defensive system.


The easiest solution is to block bacteria from getting to organs like the brain. Hence skin, white blood cells, fevers, etc.


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 7:11 PM on January 30, 2007 | IP
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In my review of the literature regarding evolution and the big bang, the literature that attempts to explain the formation of our existence, I see many similarities between the science and the religion.  First there was light, or a singularity, then the formation of heavens and the earth.  Water creatures came to exist, then land creatures.  The last things to form were humans.  It is well known that Homo sapiens are quite young compared to other creatures, we have existed for a very short time.

It certainly is a broad generalization that I have made, but I do believe that creationist ideas and scientific facts are not mutually exclusive.  There is nothing I have read, or any opinions I have come across, that can negate either science or religion.
Religion attempts to explain the why and science explains the how.  Both camps are essentially doing the same thing.  Science says “You are wrong because I have proof!”  and religion says “I am right because I have faith!”

But of course, neither camp has all of the answers.  In regards to evolution and problems that are run into, people simply say “that’s the way it is.”  You know, it does sure seem like that’s a sort of faith.  Religion cannot be explained scientifically, most of the time.  Whenever science throws a proverbial wrench into the works, religion simply explains it away as egghead tripe.
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 9:24 PM on April 8, 2007 | IP
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It certainly is a broad generalization that I have made, but I do believe that creationist ideas and scientific facts are not mutually exclusive.  There is nothing I have read, or any opinions I have come across, that can negate either science or religion.
Religion attempts to explain the why and science explains the how.  Both camps are essentially doing the same thing.  Science says “You are wrong because I have proof!”  and religion says “I am right because I have faith!”


You're doing very well up until the misconception that science is actually out to prove religion wrong. I think eliminating that belief will do away with the majority of the dilemmas.

In regards to evolution and problems that are run into, people simply say “that’s the way it is.”  You know, it does sure seem like that’s a sort of faith.


I've never seen the issue as anywhere near that simple. Could you explain what you mean?


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:16 PM on April 8, 2007 | IP
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I did not mean to say science itself is out to prove anything wrong.  The people who strictly follow science always do that, it seems.

and what I meant by the last statement was... hmm... the human mind is very fantastic, compared to the brains of other creatures.  Evolution has no other answer than "It worked, so it went with it."  At some point in our evolution, an advanced brain was necessary, but there is no explanation as to why.  That information has not yet been found.
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 9:39 PM on April 9, 2007 | IP
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"It worked, so it went with it."  At some point in our evolution, an advanced brain was necessary, but there is no explanation as to why.  That information has not yet been found.


I disagree. Natural selection explains why a more advanced brain would be beneficial. Sapiens are very social animals, and our brains allow us to develop on a much more complex level. This advantage makes us more resourceful, inventive, and communal, and those traits help us to feed more efficiently, outwit predators, and out-compete rivals. A more advanced brain is extremely useful given the context of human evolution.


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 10:04 PM on April 9, 2007 | IP
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So why don't all things have an advanced brain, or atleast more than just a few of the billions of spiecies?


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 10:43 PM on April 10, 2007 | IP
    
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