derwood
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Quote from wisp at 12:12 PM on July 3, 2010 :
Lester, i'm going to need more examples, before it qualifies as "many examples", OK?
OK, just keep 'em coming.
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And each time you can just claim that that is not enough (supposing, of course, that he can actually supply ANY) as he does...
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Lester:
"I said I have a doctorate and a university background in anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, physics, chemistry, pathology etc. ..." |
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Posts: 1346 | Posted: 3:48 PM on July 3, 2010 | IP
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Lester10
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Lester
I can show you many examples of degradation of the genome by the same process |
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Wisp
Please, go ahead. Don't let us stop you. |
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Progeria (HGPS), Cystic fibrosis, Immotile cilia syndrome, Interstitial pneumonia.... should I give you all 10 000+? Or can I refer you to a genetics book on degenerative genetic syndromes that occur due to mutations on the genome?
Lester
I can show you many examples of degradation of the genome by the same process,but you can’t show me one example for your position.
Show me one new organ or functional system that has arisen due to mutation and natural selection. |
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Wisp
Because that's not our position.
Capisci? |
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Come on Wisp, don't be shy. A bacteria slowly mutated into a human over millions of years.
A single cell organism has no liver, no toes, no arms, no bladder, no eyes, no ears, no tongue, no brain, no skin, no feathers, no scales, no wings.... All of these must have arisen via random mutation and natural selection according to the theory of Neo-Darwinism.
If that's not your claim then please tell me what your claim is - do different evolutionists have different claims? Can you show me examples of nascent organs anywhere? Newly forming systems anywhere?
Please don't be vague, I'd like to understand your particular take on this and why we have no evidence.
In fact if you don't give me at least one example of a new organ or body system that has arisen demonstrably due to natural selection and mutation, then I'm just going to let you go find the rest of the 10 000+ genetic degenerative conditions all on your own. At least I've given you SOME evidence. You've given me nothing.
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Richard Lewontin: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism... no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door” |
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Posts: 1304 | Posted: 03:50 AM on July 4, 2010 | IP
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wisp
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Lester
I can show you many examples of degradation of the genome by the same process |
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Please, go ahead. Don't let us stop you. |
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Progeria (HGPS), Cystic fibrosis, Immotile cilia syndrome, Interstitial pneumonia.... should I give you all 10 000+? Or can I refer you to a genetics book on degenerative genetic syndromes that occur due to mutations on the genome? |
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Oh... But that's not a degradation of a genome.
I actually thought you were talking about gene pools, and not individual genomes... Since you mentioned "degradation"... I mean, it sounds progressive.
So you mean individual failures. Correct?
If that's the case, what makes you think it's a problem? Those are a part of the Theory of Evolution.
| Come on Wisp, don't be shy. |
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Don't worry. ^_^ | A bacteria slowly mutated into a human over millions of years. |
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Here's a problem for your hypothesis: a bacteria doesn't live millions of years.
| A single cell organism has no liver, no toes, no arms, no bladder, no eyes, no ears, no tongue, no brain, no skin, blah, blah, blah, dumb, dumb, dumb |
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And houses don't have cities.
Of course not.
Livers, toes, arms, bladders, etc, have cells, not the other way around.
D'oh!
| All of these must have arisen via random mutation and natural selection according to the theory of Neo-Darwinism. |
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More than "arisen" i would say "specialized".
Start a thread, and we'll discuss it there. I won't run away. Promise.^_^
| If that's not your claim then please tell me what your claim is - |
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No problem. Start a thread and i will. | do different evolutionists have different claims? |
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Sometimes, yes. But on this topic you'll probably find different ways of saying the same thing.
For those who look beyond words, directly into reality, it's not a big deal.
Start a thread and we'll discuss it.
| Can you show me examples of nascent organs anywhere? Newly forming systems anywhere? |
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I don't think so. Perhaps there are, but that's not necessary, and i don't see how the ToE would predict such a thing.
First of all, your wording might sound clear to you, but it's not. I don't know what "nascent" or "newly forming systems" would look like to you.
It will probably be a caricature.
Start a thread and we'll discuss it.
| Please don't be vague, I'd like to understand your particular take on this and why we have no evidence. |
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No problem. But i don't want to screw this thread. Start a new one.
Don't you like order? ^_^
| In fact if you don't give me at least one example of a new organ or body system that has arisen demonstrably due to natural selection and mutation, then I'm just going to let you go find the rest of the 10 000+ genetic degenerative conditions all on your own. At least I've given you SOME evidence. You've given me nothing. |
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Yeeeah... The thing is that i don't feel any need to support what i didn't even claim.
Does that sound strange to you? Because you don't even feel the need to support even what you do claim...
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Lester| (...) since convergent evolution does NOT lead to homology. |
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According to people who believe in convergent evolution, it does lead to homologous structures by pure chance mutations in different lines altogether. |
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porkchop
Would we see a mammal by the water's edge "suddenly" start breathing underwater(w/camera effect of course)? |
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Contact me at youdebate.1wr@gishpuppy.com |
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Posts: 2546 | Posted: 1:22 PM on July 4, 2010 | IP
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Creationism vs Evolution Debates
