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   Creationism vs Evolution Debates
     Evolution and Morality
       Morality by Darwinian social selection

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FreeAmerican

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I do think that there are moral and immoral absolutes, species specific and molded by evolution. I am an Atheistic Evolutionist. I think that morality is genetically and neurobehaviourally programmed into our brains. It is more effectively programmed in some (good people) than others (bad people). Yet we all have an intuitive "knowledge" that murder apart from killing in self/family defence is wrong. We know that theft is wrong. We know that killing any baby is wrong now as it was in the time of Deuteronomy (when God ordered it.) We know that spousal abuse, rape, deprivation of freedom (slavery), lying, and robbery are wrong and always wrong.

Christian Bible believers think that killing babies was alright if God ordered it, alright if God killed the babies (Egypt and Noah's Flood), inflicting plagues on innocent people for what their Pharaoh did, killing men/women/children/babies for erecting a golden calf (changing religion.) All of those things were moral in the Old Testament but not in the New Testament. Now only the most dodgy or insane Fundamentalists would insist that it is still alright to kill the babies of infidels. Thus Judeo-Christian morality is very relative. It is not moral or immoral on any objective basis but purely the whim of God who can change his mind.

Christian moral relativeness is seen in the high Christian crime rate, and murder rates compared to Atheists. That is because they fail to see robery or murder as wrong because of the harm done to fellow humans. It is only wrong by fiat from God if God is in the mood. And by saying a few magic words you can erase any responsibilty for evil acts, as long as you believe and are born again. Some fundies have to be born again several times per year. That adds further to the proposition that Christian Morality is relative, what might be called "situational ethics."

FreeAmerican



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"The man who follows is a slave. The man who thinks is free." Robert G. Ingersoll
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 10:03 PM on April 9, 2003 | IP
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You make some good points except for one thing, you refer only to the Old Testement in the bible.

Christianity basically revolves around two beliefs:  Love God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, and Love man.

---JB---
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:51 PM on April 10, 2003 | IP
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Another dead issue. Ethics 101, in college will show you that marols are not based on religion, since some cultures that had no religion had morals. Hence another false assumption that religion creates morals.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:05 PM on April 10, 2003 | IP
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It's much more logical to assume that morals come from God, not from man.

---JB---
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:24 PM on April 11, 2003 | IP
FreeAmerican

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Quote from Guest at 2:24 PM on April 11, 2003 :
It's much more logical to assume that morals come from God, not from man.

---JB---


Actually it is not more logical to assume morals came from God. You and I agree that morals did not come from religion, but that religion adopted them. The question is did morals come from a species specific evolutionary process of social selection in a group? Or did they come from the decree of a God?

If logic is our guide:

1. God is the origin of all, including morals
2. Morals were communicated to man.
3. Human morality is from God.

1. Man's brain is the  result of natural biological evolution.
2. Human behaviour and cognition is brain based (including intuition, morals, logic)
3. Morals result from evolution.

1 So, either human morals derived from evolution or from God.
2 Evolution is proven, God is unproven.
3 Therefore morals derive more likely from Evolution.

Cuchulainn





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"The man who follows is a slave. The man who thinks is free." Robert G. Ingersoll
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 7:50 PM on April 11, 2003 | IP
Hammer_of_God

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Personally I believe that the moment Adam was made he was perfect, so he had perfect morals...up until he sinned...

most of his morals remained, but a lot were gone...


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Life is either an adventure, or nothing...
 


Posts: 24 | Posted: 10:43 PM on April 13, 2003 | IP
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Wouldn't having perfect morals prevent him from sinning?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:39 PM on April 13, 2003 | IP
FreeAmerican

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Quote from Guest at 11:39 PM on April 13, 2003 :
Wouldn't having perfect morals prevent him from sinning?


The Big question indeed, Guest. If Adam had "perfect" morals he could not have sinned. Therefore he was morally imperfect. Either God made a morally imperfect creature, like Adam, or evolution as we all know never produces perfection. Evolution only produces something that works enough of the time to ensure survival. As far as we know perfection does't exist.

Cuchulainn




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"The man who follows is a slave. The man who thinks is free." Robert G. Ingersoll
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 12:11 AM on April 14, 2003 | IP
Hammer_of_God

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So see, God made Adam perfect but he still had a free will, just like the angels that become demons...

Adam was decieved by Eve, who was decieved by Satan...that's why Christians believe that Satan is the enemy of the world...


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Life is either an adventure, or nothing...
 


Posts: 24 | Posted: 4:09 PM on April 15, 2003 | IP
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If Adam and Eve were only tricked, why were they punished?  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:38 PM on April 15, 2003 | IP
FreeAmerican

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It reads like Adam and Eve were set up in a giant sting operation. God said that Adam and Eve were not to eat the fruit of one tree. He placed it in the middle of the Garden to tempt Adam and Eve. He said that the fruit was of the knowledge of good and evil.

If Adam and Eve didn't already know the difference between good and evil, how could they have sinned. Doesn't one need to know tht he/she is doing wrong for it to be wrong?

So naturally they would eat the fruit, since they didn't know good or evil. This was the great sting operation, unfair, and then condemn Adam and Eve, all non-human animals, and all of Adam's descendents. Bad sting operation, unjust judgment, cruel and  unusual punishment.

I came away in primary school, thinking that God was a pal of Nikita Khruschev and Fidel Castro.

FreeAmerican


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"The man who follows is a slave. The man who thinks is free." Robert G. Ingersoll
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 03:30 AM on April 16, 2003 | IP
Evolution

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Quote from Guest at 10:05 PM on April 10, 2003 :
Another dead issue. Ethics 101, in college will show you that marols are not based on religion, since some cultures that had no religion had morals. Hence another false assumption that religion creates morals.



name one please (not testing you just never heard oa culture/civiliation that didn't have a religion).  the ten commandments as well as the whole bible "trying to be christ like" if this doesn't teach you morals? then what is your definition of morals?




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Invest your love in each other not God. Uncertinity is the stuff of curiosity.
 


Posts: 10 | Posted: 7:25 PM on June 28, 2003 | IP
    
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