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Johnny

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Hi  I'm new here.. and I'm only 13  

I'am a supporter of the war with Iraq, but I need to know why its was a good Idea to go there, and why we went there. I need this information.. lol

Make it short and sweet  

Johnny

 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 11:46 PM on April 2, 2004 | IP
kutless

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I am also a supporter of the war in Iraq. The main reason is because of the horror that struck this nation on September 11th. I'm 15, but I lived in New York at the time, and some of my family were there when it happened. The depression and horrors they lived with were enough. The war was justifed. Osama Bin Laden killed hundreds of innocent lives. Also, I have a question. You say that you support the war in Iraq, but you don't know why. How can you support something that you don't understand?

(Edited by kutless 4/25/2004 at 10:54 AM).


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*juSt*
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 8:04 PM on April 22, 2004 | IP
Kronus

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Kutless is a bit confused, but it's not really his fault.  President Bush tried really hard to make it seem like Iraq had something to do with the 9/11 attacks, but it's simply not true.  Saddam had nothing to do with Al-Queda, or those terrorists.  

Good reasons for attacking Iraq?  Not many, really.  Saddam was a cruel dictator, with a history of human rights violations, so getting him out of power is a good thing.

Bad reasons for attacking?  Lots more of those.  Premptive war is illegal.  We (I'm American) have pissed off alot of our strongest allies.  We had to pull troops out of Afganistan in order to invade, and now the Taliban is making a comeback there.  Resources that should have been used to track down Al-Queda are bing used in Iraq instead.  And finally, our invasion and occupation has become a rallying point for Muslim extremists all over the world, making Al-Quida's work that much easier.

So why did we attack?  Good question.  Bush says he thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, but more and more people in his administration are coming forward and saying that Bush never really thought that, it was just an excuse.  As far as I can tell, Bush attacked Iraq because his cabinet wanted him to, and they wanted to because half of them served under Bush senior, and still had a 10 year old mind set about world affairs.

Kutless makes a good point.  You shouldn't say you support something if you can't say why it's a good idea.  Don't be afraid to say you don't have an opinion about something if you don't know enough about it.


 


Posts: 92 | Posted: 5:51 PM on May 4, 2004 | IP
OccamsRazor

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Quote from Johnny at 11:46 PM on April 2, 2004 :
Hi †I'm new here.. and I'm only 13 †

I'am a supporter of the war with Iraq, but I need to know why its was a good Idea to go there, and why we went there. I need this information.. lol

Make it short and sweet †

Johnny



Its to early to tell what the lasting impact of the current military action in Iraq will be... but the signs are less than encouraging.

In the mean time, it is important to remember the cost that war exacts on those who fight it and those who live with it. To that end you may find these web pages interesting:

Iraq Coalition Casualties

Iraq Body Count

Maybe if the there had been less Wolfowicz's, Perle's and Rumsfeld's (who have never had significant military service or fought in a war) in the Whitehouse and more Powells (who do know war and appreciate its consequences) we would not be in the current situation...


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Broaden your perspective: http://www.talkorigins.org/
 


Posts: 92 | Posted: 9:57 PM on May 7, 2004 | IP
Vermatrix

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I am also a supporter for the war with Iraq but for a differant reason. Most people feel the war was wrong because of poor intelligance information or other reasons, however, what people should realize is even though the war may have been for the wrong reasons it had to be done. For over a decade the people of Iraq suffered under the rule of Saddam, though they may be from another country with a differant language and differant customs and belifes they are still human, it would be easy to ignore their situation because what they went through isn't happening to us, still they are humans as we are so we can't just sit and let fellow humans be treated that way. Also there is the damage that Saddam and his followers have done to the planet, I am reffering to the thousands of gallons of oil poured into the sea and the oil fields set on fire and the chemical weapons he has used in the past. This is not Saddam's planet and he has no right to destroy it like that, afterall we have to live on it too.

As far as weapons of mass destruction, it's almost impossible to tell if there is any there now or not. Some people say there is some there and some say there isn't, that Bush lied about it, but thats just the democrates fighting the republicans as usual. Theres still hundreds of miles of desert out there that hasn't been searched yet, Saddam could have weapons hidden anywhere. The trouble is everyone is looking in the wrong places, if you have something illegal you wouldn't exactly have it out in the open with a big neon sign over it saying here I am.  If he did have them they could be anywhere, maybe even in a neighboring country that supported him.


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-=V=-
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 04:15 AM on July 18, 2004 | IP
unkerpaulie

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I disagree with the war for a lot of reasons. first of all, i'm a new yorker too. i was downtown manhattan stuck in the subway on 14th street when the tower collapsed. when i came out, people were covered in debris and cops and emergency personel were everywhere.

the fbi had known within 24 hours that bin laden was behind the attacks. it is documented that the fbi approved flights for the bin laden family and other saudis only 2 days after the attack, at a time when flights were restricted to only those of the highest urgency.

the hijackers themselves, of the 19 involved, 15 were saudi, the others were from UAE, egypt, and lebanon

at the time, bin laden himself was based in afghanistan, where he was supported by the taliban government

ok, so the logical thing to do, in bringing to justice the criminals that caused the death of thousands of innocent lives and the destruction of national monuments of our economy, would be to go after bin laden, as well as the people that directly helped the hijackers, right?

we invaded afghanistan in november, (2 months after it was known that bin laden was behind the attacks) with just over 12000 troops. in about a month we had taken out the taliban regime (although bin laden and mullah omar, leader of the taliban, escaped)

suddenly, out of the blue, bush decides to completely abandon the hunt for al qaeda and starts attacking iraq. iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 in any way shape or form whatsoever. iraq had no weapons, in fact, saddam showed evidence that he had dismantled the weapons he had, but bush said he was lying. by january 2002, we had over 120,000 troops in iraq (and only 11,000 in afghanistan, where al qaeda actually was)

after failing to show evidence that saddam was a threat to our safety, bush insisted that we "stay the course", using "freedom and democracy to iraq" as our new reason for being in iraq in the first place.

so how exactly did we shift from hunting been laden to liberating the poor iraqis? and how is bringing democracy to iraq more urgent than capturing the most notorious american-hating terrorist the world has ever known? and how can we say that we are making america safer when al qaeda is still operational (as well as thousands of terrorist cells in egypt, lebanon, saudi, yemen, iran, jordan, pallestine, sudan, etc) and we are sending zero troops to eliminate these actual troops?

i have no idea, but i guess you can  ask any of the thousands of bush-supporters that know the answers to these questions...


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hooked on logic
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 11:54 AM on October 27, 2004 | IP
msmolinski21

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edit out. sorry.

(Edited by msmolinski21 2/2/2006 at 4:59 PM).
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 4:20 PM on December 5, 2004 | IP
Peter87

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I'm presuming that you are all americans, and its good to see that your not all as stupid as your country as a whole looks to the out side world. And I cannot remember the source of this, but the average inteligence of all the states that voted for Bush had and average inteligence of less than 100 and all the states that voted for kerry had an average inteligence of more than 100. This may seem to be off topic but I'm getting to that.
Now the war in Iraq, lets face it there is no conection between Al Queda and Iraq. The harsh reality is that the war in Iraq is ilegal! The only reason left for the war is regime change and that is ilegal, by united nations law.
Not only is there no conection between Iraq and Al Queda There is very little between Al Queda and 9/11. Infact Bin Laden did use the name Al Queda until after 9/11. Basicaly the american people wanted justice for 9/11, and in the same way mafia boses can be convicted for crimes they are not directly involved in Al Queda was invented to convict Bin Laden of crimes. All Al Queda involve ment in 9/11 was to fund it and take claim for it. The Hijackers were not member and bin laden did not come up with the plan. Bin Laden is aperantly the black sheep of a rich Saudi Oil Based rich family. So he has the money, so people came to him with this idea and he funded it. And yes these people do agree with him. The clear and obvious truth is that there is no mager terrorist organisation in the world.
You are now think so why go to the trouble of making this fake fear. Its the power of night mares. Republicans have been looseing there power for the last decade and a half. Since the fall of communism, which contary to popular belief colapsed on its self and wasn't toppled by america. So with communism the american gouverntment had this fear that it can work to its advantage. However with the loss of communism there is no longer this fear so 9/11 is perfect timing for them so they create this fake fear to scare the american peole into keeping bush and the republicans.
Ok I did seem to go rather off topic there but I was hopefully replying to earlier comments.
Another thing....
Also there is the damage that Saddam and his followers have done to the planet, I am reffering to the thousands of gallons of oil poured into the sea and the oil fields set on fire and the chemical weapons he has used in the past. This is not Saddam's planet and he has no right to destroy it like that, afterall we have to live on it too.

Are you forgetting the damage that america is doing to the world. America is the biggest producer of green house gasses, but wont acknowledge global warming. On this reason alone every American should have voted Kerry.
So Bush, and Blair Should be held in trial for war crimes. And therfore another election should be held, or just put kerry in power.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 4:38 PM on January 2, 2005 | IP
luke9

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Mr. IQ test guy.
You spelt major wrong it's not majer.

I do support the war in Iraq for many reasons
here they are...


        Many scholars have grouped Saddam Hussein with Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot.  These men have slaughtered millions of people needlessly for their own political power.  Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot were all arrested or killed.  So why should we not stop Saddam Hussein?  He was just like all those other men who people would consider ruthless killers. Saddam Hussein has a terrible human rights record, Weapons of Mass Destruction and his Ethnic Cleansing (AKA, genocide) policies.  Iraq should be liberated.
         During Saddam Husseinís reign there has been a systematic pattern of torture.  Beginning in about 2000 Saddam started making unneeded amputations.  For an example, on July 17th a man had his tongue amputated for criticizing Saddam Hussein (thesmokinggun.com).  How did this continue to happen when we had the power to stop it?  He would detain Kurds for up to 2 decades for experiments just like Josef Mengele (whitehouse.gov).  This is very disturbing and horrific.  Some other common techniques he and his sons used were electrocution, burning, and cutting and breaking bottles to shove up someoneís rectum (thesmokinggun.com).  How could this continue?
        Right off the bat, yes the United States and its allies have not found any Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD), but they would have, if we had not liberated Iraq. They would eventually have some sort of WMD.  In 1996, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said that Saddam would be capable of a Nuke in a few years (pbs.org).  This would be a threat to every nation on the face of the earth.  In 1999, United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) reported that Iraq was most secretive about its Nuclear program (pbs.org).  The commission that is in charge of finding out what Iraq is up to couldnít even tell what was going on.  In Halabja (a Kurdish city in Northern Iraq) Saddam mercilessly slaughtered about 5000 men, women, and children (fas.org). This proves that he is not afraid to use the weapons he has.  Any weapon of mass destruction is horrible and makes the situation much worse in the hands of a mad man.
         Genocide: Deliberate killing of people based on their ethnicity, nationality, race, religion, or politics.  This was definitely evident in Iraq.  Al-Anfal ends in 1989.  In its wake, 90% of Kurdish villages obliterated, 15 MILLION mines planted, and  1 and a half MILLION Kurds displaced.  According to Kurdish sources, 182,000 mothers and daughters, sons and fathers brutally slaughtered just for being Kurdish (geocities.com). This is 100% genocide, no doubt.  In June of 1987, one of Saddamís henchmen randomly made a circle around 1000 people and declared it prohibitedÖ1,000 people mowed down with assault rifles for being Kurdish (geocities.com).  Saddam and his men were totally out of control and do whatever they want.  In the early 1990ís, Saddam Hussein decided to dam and destroy the marshes.  The marshes were home to hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims.  About 250,000 Shiites were displaced and thousands died of starvation and other causes (fas.org).  This is a gigantic ecological disaster that is irreversible and will be a problem for generations to come.  If you were not a Sunni-Arab Muslim, Saddam would be after you.  By gassing, intimidating and destroying their homes he has very effectively killed many of his own countrymen.  
         So my question is: are we supposed to sit back and relax in our Lexus cages and turn a blind eye to these people being killed?  He attempted to build WMDís, tortured his own people and tried to make an all Sunni-Arab state.  It is selfish and greedy to not help our brothers and sisters when they are in need.  Liberate Iraq!  A closing quote:
         "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of moral crisis maintain their neutrality."
                                      -Saint Thomas Aquinas



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luke
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 9:39 PM on June 1, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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Ok he didn't try to build WMD's, no factorys capable of the production of WMD's, no programmes, no plans, no weapons. This was the preface of the war and was found to be false.
You preach the human rights record, but studies have shown that by this time there would have been a revolution in Iraq, this was by people working iraq before and after the war, and I think they are in a better position to judge than anyone else. Now I'm not saying what Suddam did was right, but there were and still are much worse regimes in this world, where will America stop in policing the world and forcing there way of life on other people. Not everyone wants to live in a democracy, there are many people that would rather live in a Theocracy.
Saddam should not be put in the same group as Hitler etc, they shouldn't be put in the same groupings together, Hitler and Stalin had complet oposite political opinions (communism and facism) (but lets not get into that). Do you realise how much the WWII veterans were insulted when Bush refered to Suddam as a modern day Hitler. He is not like Hitler, for a start he didn't try to take over the world. Yes he invaded his neiboughs after the western world funded the invasions.


Oh and where did I put majer, I ran a search over this thread and it didn't find it. Also I have probably said it before on this forum and will say it again, I can't spell very well, and put up or shut up about it. Plus IQ is not based on spelling ability. Plus if I put majer I must have been typing quickly and not thought about it, its not a mistake I would make.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 3:57 PM on June 2, 2005 | IP
Lord Iorek

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Quote from Johnny at 11:46 PM on April 2, 2004 :
Hi  I'm new here.. and I'm only 13  

I'am a supporter of the war with Iraq, but I need to know why its was a good Idea to go there, and why we went there. I need this information.. lol

Make it short and sweet  

Johnny




Wow Johnny, you're just another example of our big American Ego. At least be slightly informed. You're a teenager like me, you can watch the news once in a while. You should have disscusions in your classes at school about this. And I can't make it short and it certainly won't be sweet.

You think that America does what's right no matter what but guess again, America has some shady dealings that some people tend to forget. The U.S. has been essential in putting into power, the Shah, Pinochet, Noriega, and Aritede to name a few. Also, we supported the contras until we learned they were drug smugglers... keep in mind that these soldiers were vicious killers and had little care about who they killed. So invading Iraq has no grounds except for a three letter word  which begins with "O".

And besides, staging a coup de tat in the name of Democracy is a paradox. Democracy cannot be put into effect unless the people want it enough to write themselves a constitution. the U.S. didn't set up the french republic... They did it on their own.

And Luke9, you are doing nothing to help the argument, the sanctions were working (sanctions take more than three seconds to work). There was no evidence he was (you'd just assume he had it shipped to Syria when they were attacked)

The only reason that Hussein was making the weapons inspectors' jobs hard was to show the world that he can stir things up. But with a madman like the W, we interpreted that he was hiding someone and Saddam recieved a result he did not expect.

I went to PBS and this is a link to what I found


But sure get Saddam should be out of power, but once we leave that forsaken wasteland, a ayatolla-ish dictator will come and be a much more iminent threat the the other sects of Muslims and the world. Speaking of the Ayatolla, I hear they are very close to getting WMD's, do we invade them before it is too late?

And Peter is right the only person who wrote majer is you Luke9.

Oh, and amputating tongues has been practiced in this country.

Go here to see what your freedom money could be used for...
cost of war  


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"At the age of six I wanted to be a cook. At seven I wanted to be Napoleon. And my ambition has been growing steadily ever since." - Salvador Dali

Guide the future by the past, long ago the mould was cast. - Rush
 


Posts: 121 | Posted: 6:37 PM on June 2, 2005 | IP
luke9

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(The clear and obvious truth is that there is no mager terrorist organization in the world.) Your exact words Peter87

Is the reading ability or problem solving part of the IQ test? Ctrl+F does the trick (I donít know about Macís, there crap any ways)

A coup where did you hear that report?  If does not take a lot of research to figure out what type of a person Saddam Hussein is.  There is just about no way to stage a coup and he had been ruling for many years and there was no sign of one happening.  He killed his own family if he had the slightest suspicion that they were up to something.  He had men that would randomly pretend to be plotting a coup and come to people and ask if they were against Saddam (with a loaded gun to there head) and If they said yes they were shot on the spot.  Tough environment to start a coup if you ask me.


When did I mention Syria or sanctions?

Buddy he DID use WMD's on the Kurds look it up so there for he could make them and did use them.

About the democracy I think that a high majority of people do want to live in a democracy.  Tons of people voted in Iraq despite the threats and attacks, in Lebanon they have demanded that Syria leave and that has happened, In Ukraine despite multiple attempts on his life Victor Yuschenko and the people of Ukraine did not stand for Russian rule and moved toward a democracy, Palestine (helped by the death of Yasser Arafat) still they could have easily become a theocracy instead they voted with a high turnout as well.  They are a few countries I did not mention as well.  Keep in mind this is ONLY with in the last few years.

In the ways they invaded not quite the same but still similar.  I was more hitting on the mass murder committed and genocide they both did this not in the exact same fashion but genocide is genocide and once you get into the millions of people you cannot ignore that number.  Hitler did it on a much larger scale but 2 million people is a lot of people.  Again Stalin and Hitler quite obviously are not in the same "group" but when it comes to the human rights record they defiantly are grouped together.  These 3 men for the most part had much different policies 2 were arch rivals but they all slaughtered millions of people for just about no reason at all.

There are no large terrorist organizations what on earth are you smoking?  Are you saying that Al-Qaeda is some small operation?  To plan an attack on that scale with 20 (one was caught) highly trained operatives getting into the US and achieving most of there objectives.  That is a massive undertaking with many people involved.     Where did you hear there were no MAJOR terrorist organizations in the world?  You have many of your facts mixed up.

When did the US cut of someoneís tongue for speaking against the government?  If this is true it was low level for sure and it wasnít ordered by the President.

We have about 20 separate countries that have backed and supported our liberation of Iraq.  

France is not one of them they actually offered to help Iraq rebuild its nuclear facility after Israel bombed it free of charge.

Think about it and read it a few times since you guys seem to have a problem with that.









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luke
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 9:34 PM on June 2, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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Ok, well I would have found mager, if you had said that I had put mager, rather than saying majer. I had a choice read through and look for it, or like you said press ctrl+f, so ctrl+f didn't find majer, so it is obviously you who also has a dificulty copying, but why are you so hung up on a spelling mistake?
Coup's have suceeded in far worse places, it was the Iraq research group, they are in a better position than you to judge.
Yes he used WMD's on the Kurds in the past, but he didn't have anything capable of reaching America.
Are you saying that Russia isn't a democracy, just becuase it is left wing doesn't mean that it isn't a democracy, they still have democratic elections.
Yes well done the people of thos country's do want a democracy, but isn't it a bit of a hint when you actualy have to invade a country in force them to have democracy that they don't want one?
Actualy, Sudam performed genocide to remain in power, Hitler performed genocide to bring his country out of a major depresion he was actualy quite suceful at that. Stalin he performed genocide for the benefit of his country as well. Now I'm not saying that they were good men, but they did do it for their country as well as them selves.

Ok Al-Qaeda, this may take a while, I'm fighting against american patriotic brain wash, but here it goes.
Research has shown that the 9/11 terrorists were not originaly part of Al-Qaeda. Bin Laden did not come up with the plan, however he is very rich. The terrorists aproached him with the plans, and in exchange for funding the attacks he took responsability for them, to gain suport from other muslim fundamentalists. Actualy you don't need a large organisation to plan an attack, just time and money. Highly trained? realy is that why the pilots of the 9/11 planes had nether flown before they took over the plains, they actualy learn to fly from flight simulators. They also all traveled under their own identities, with fully legitamit documentation.
Now you ask, why is there so much put onto this, well its all to do with the politics of fear, they the majority of Bush voters why they voted, hey the answer was becuase they belived that he would keep them safe. Politicians scare the voters.
Why do you think that no Al-Qaeda mountain bases were found.
Al-Qaeda is a relativly small funding operation, that funds people who want to commit terrorist actions against the west.
Have you actualy seen the list of the coalition of the willing. Most are small counrtys, and all the major countries that "aproved" the war in Iraq had huge public demonstrations.
Do you need to point out that france isn't one of them?


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 3:03 PM on June 6, 2005 | IP
Lord Iorek

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whoa whoa whoa... when I said coup de tat (quick seizure of power) I was talking about the United States actions of forcing democracy onto a people who really could have risen up but fear what will come after Saddam. (Although, the US did fund a miltary coup in Argentina to put one of the most brutal dictators, worse than saddam, into power) What do you think will happen to Iraq when and if we leave? Do you have this fantasy belief that they will become world economic powers like Japan or Germany?

Think again, once we pull out, terrorists will show up from different countries that support terrorism(Iran) and overthrow this democracy and put a fundamentalist Islamic madman (the Ayatolla 2.0) into power.

Much like Vietnam, in a few more years we will give up and call it quits and let all that money be wasted and cause it to be an even poorer country.

And I take back the syria and sanctions thing...

Also, I'm not sure why the link didn't show up but it is the same report you read. I found one flaw though. In 1996 the UN dismantled the program and in 2000 the weapons inspectors said that they made no progress. And yes, you can make a Nuke in a few months. MIT students build reactors for their finals. But the problem is uranium is needed and Iraq had no intention of buying uranium. The report made no support to your statement and in fact hurted it.

Also, I did look up whether Saddam used WMD's on the Kurds and all he did was gas them. When I say WMD's I'm saying Nuclear warheads.

And you proved my point when listing the countries with developing democracies because they are working for it. However, Palestine is not a country so they can't have a government.

And Stalin did have a reason for slaughtering his own people. He killed all opponents of the communist party because they posed a threat to the USSR. So, don't lump extreme genocide and keeping the power the same thing. They were both horrible but have reasons (not good ones but still reasons) behind them. Also, Hitler and Stalin were hardly rivals, they had a non agression pact that Germany broke when Hitler couldn't take England. So, really they were whay you would call rivals for two or three years.

I really don't care about Al-Queda because they were never funded by Saddam, in fact all Islamic fundamentalist terrorists were not funded by Saddam because Saddam is a secular muslim and is an easy target for Al-Queda. So please if you want to talk about terrorists make a new thread because they have no place in Iraq, the 9/11 commission even said Saddam had no connections with 9/11 but you obviously do not trust the experts and instead, follow the lame-brained assumptions of a C student president.

When I mantioned the tongue thing I was talking about the actions of our early country. You know where women couldn't vote and black people were in chains in the home of the free. Our country isn't very moralistic, so don't try to paint a pretty picture over the greedy money machine known as America.

And Peter is correct, the coaltion of the willing is the equivilent of having oompah-loompah's as your posse.

I do agree with you on one topic. Macs do suck.

However, you shouldn't get hung up about mager when you can't spell "they're". There means a location. They're means, they are. I know I don't have perfect grammar but I try most of the time.

And don't bash France, they were right and you're just jealous.

Name one US invasion in the name of democracy and I will show you an ugly truth.


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"At the age of six I wanted to be a cook. At seven I wanted to be Napoleon. And my ambition has been growing steadily ever since." - Salvador Dali

Guide the future by the past, long ago the mould was cast. - Rush
 


Posts: 121 | Posted: 7:20 PM on June 6, 2005 | IP
luke9

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When have coups succeeded in far worse places?

Russia is sliding away from a democracy I think and by endorsing a candidate who had people vote more than once and beating people for the opposition with sticks.

The Iraqis wanted a democracy but were so oppressed that it would be close to impossible to form one with out outside help.

Now youíre making a lot of sense to get out of a depression you should kill millions of people.  He said the Jews were the reason Germany was week but he killed them because he hated them.

The US got out of the depression without killing millions of people by the way.

Stalin killed to make the USSR "better" yes but...he also sent any one he saw as a threat to him to a gulag.  For an example as soon as Lenin died and Stalin secured his place as the top leader (not exactly sure what it was called in the USSR) he sent Trotsky strait to the gulag and he never came back.

Yes he did not come up with the plan but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed did.  One of Usama Bin Laden's key men.  According to the 9/11 Report he was the key architect of the plot.  

They never flew an airplane?  Are you kidding they took flight training schools where they flew planes in the air.  I have heard that the maneuvers that were performed to attack the Pentagon were advanced and complex.  The plot took many years to make all the final arrangements.  What evidence do you have to back up all these claims?  I have never heard this ever before that Al-Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11.

How was the US supposed to know that he would be this bad?  What in the world does this have to do with the war in Iraq any ways?  The president who decided to back this coup is not the same who liberated Iraq.

If the Iraqis step up and will not tolerate the insurgency and put an end to it.  I think that there could be that possibility considering it is a very oil rich nation.  Germany was in complete ruin after WW2 and a lot of Japan and now look where they are about 50 years later.  Iím not saying this will happen for sure but if the Iraqis want it to it will happen.  There is such a small percent though of the total population that are terrorists but the media makes it seem like all Iraq is, is a country full of terrorists but in reality it is quite small.

I was listening to an interview on a Medal of Honor recipient (he received it in Vietnam) and he said that in Vietnam if you asked our US troops what they wanted most they said to go home.  So he recently went to Iraq and asked the same question and got the opposite answer to beat the bad guys.

here is a more complete list of my sources...
Bibliography

1) 60 Minutes. CBS. CBS, Shoreview. 24 February 2003
2) Harry Hayes. International Review . 2 May 2005. International Review. 9 May 2005  

3) Hoagland, Jim. ďNo Longer Your IraqĒ Washington Post. 10 April 2005: Page B07
4) PBS Web Team . Public Broadcasting Service . 1995-2005 . Public Broadcasting
Service. 22 April 2005
5) Peter Voth. FAS. 2004. Federation of American Scientists. 22 April 2005

6) White House Web Team. The White House .2005. The US government. 23 April
2005
7) William Bastone. The Smoking Gun .2005. Court TV. 22 April 2005


Lord Iorek are you a Nuclear physicist?  I didnít think so. it takes a long time to make a Nuclear bomb and get it to weapons grade like at least 1 year.  It could make the Uranium needed how do you think the US made a Nuke in WW2?

WMD refers to Nuclear Biological or Chemical weapons.  So he did use weapons of mass destruction.  He used Bio and Chem on the Kurds so saying all he did was gas them is an understatement.  

Some countries are in such a tight situation they need help as I said earlier.

Stalin did both he derived food from the Ukraine to be used elsewhere killing 5 million peasants and about 14 million in his entire revolution from above.  

In the present Convention (1948), genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group

He intentionally killed many peasants since he did not see them as useful.

In Israel when a suicide bomber would blow him self up Saddam would send money to the family help them rebuild a new house since there son/daughter killed many Israelis.  These terrorist organizations that were basically all Muslim and Saddam helped them.

Some of the greatest thinkers, inventors, business men/women and presidents didnít even finish school.  Just cause you donít do well in school or finish does not mean you are not intelligent or dumb.  Some people just donít do well in that type of an environment.

Did I ever say that we were perfect?  We did have many horrible atrocities committed at the beginning of our creation as a country.  But we have gone a long ways and are one of the leading countries in terms of human rights.

You do know one thing.

France jealous?? I think they are pansies that are afraid to stand up and do any thing.  They are pathetic and have a huge hidden agenda and they wonít take risks.  They also canít fight at all.  

We have not had many that I know of but in terms of modern wars every country we liberate we help them form a democracy.  Look at West Europe and how it has come along some courtiers better than others but still.  We liberated Iraq!




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Posts: 23 | Posted: 12:44 PM on June 10, 2005 | IP
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So but from the end of your post did I get the message right, that you set up the democracys of western europe, lol, oh thats fun.

I didn't say Al-Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11, I said that they funded it and took claim for it. All the videos of Osama with with militia, are all hired men, not full time members of Al-Qaeda, just mercinarys. I brought up Al-Qaeda becuase many people think that Suddam had links with Al-Qaeda which is completely untrue, anyway lets drop that side of discussion if we are agreed he didn't have links with them.

Oh and I love your racist comment about the
French. Just streagthens the world opinion about American arrogance. No they aren't scared to stand up and fight, they fought in the first Gulf War, they just do not agree with this gulf war, as do many other countries and people.

Ok, he asked for american invasions.
The end of WW2 was not an American Invasion, in two very important sences, it wasn't American, and it wasn't an Invasion.
You will find that the American forces were allied and were under the overal command of the British Generals. And it wasn't an invasion, it was a defence and a counter attack.
Any other democratic invasions you have?
Oh and most of the European countries had democracy before WW2.


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Posts: 301 | Posted: 9:14 PM on June 11, 2005 | IP
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I never said I set up the democracies but the Allies helped a lot in rebuilding west Europe.  Unlike the communists in the East where many of those countries are very poor and donít have very good economies.

You know they are hired men how????
Some could be mercenaries but for the most part they are Al-Qaeda operatives that are fighting a religious jihad and are not paid or barely paid.

I would find it very hard to believe that Saddam never helped Al-Qaeda.  I already wrote that in my last post.

Its not racists unless the French are there own race.  Itís bias.  Since Napoleon the French have not fought a war successfully (the French resistance though was very impressive) and Napoleon didnít do that great of a job either.  

It was a liberation/invasion and it was mostly American soldiers that did the grunt work.  There were British soldiers but not nearly as many as US.

I think you have been watching the BBC a little too much.  Bernard Montgomery is that who you are talking about?
The US commanders made just about all the decisions.

There are a lot of ways to look at it and where you start and begin.

Yes they did but Fascism is not a democracy.



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Posts: 23 | Posted: 7:55 PM on June 14, 2005 | IP
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Sorry but you've been watching far too many Holly Wood Films. So many films have been made to show the Americans to be the hero's doing all the work. Now this is simpily untrue. Yes on D-day the american soldiers were put into the most well defended beach, not intentionaly.
The majority of british men between 18 and 45 were conscripted into the army. My home city had 9/10th of it bombed, thats the most damaged done by the bombing raids.
Considering that the U.S. soldiers didn't arive until after perl harbour.

Racism can refer to discrimination against anyone of differnt culture or country as well, therefore it is racist.

Many country's did have democracy, between the Kaiser and Hitler even Germany had a democracy, britain, france, most of nothern europe, most of western europe.


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Posts: 301 | Posted: 07:40 AM on June 15, 2005 | IP
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Why are we talking about World War 2?

It was relatively equal for casualties.  I could not find accurate numbers for actual American and British involvement.  I am sorry to hear that about your city.

Only about 10% of the US wanted to go to war before Pearl Harbor.  I think that was a huge mistake not getting involved sooner.  

Racism is derived from the word race or your ethnic heritage African, Anglo-sax ex. not country.  That is being bias.

Hitler invaded all of those countries except Brittan obviously.  And i bet according to you Saddam was a democracy to.  Sure he was a ""democracy"" but no one was alive to tell about the time they voted against him.




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Posts: 23 | Posted: 10:38 PM on June 15, 2005 | IP
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No I'm not going to say suddam was a democracy, he was a person, and there wasn't democracy in Iraq. But fopr a short period of time, there was democracy in Germany, after WW1 and before hitler came to power.

Racisim :
2 Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Race :
2 A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

From here : http://www.answers.com/racism&r=67

Its still racism.


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Posts: 301 | Posted: 10:31 AM on June 16, 2005 | IP
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Yes but were not talking before hitler were talking about Hitler when he was in power so that is irelevant to the topic.

Whatever




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Posts: 23 | Posted: 3:05 PM on June 16, 2005 | IP
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What happened to all the ainti liberate Iraq people? Have you all given up?


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Posts: 23 | Posted: 12:21 AM on June 27, 2005 | IP
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It was a terrible idea to occupy Iraq. George "Brainhole Terrorist" Bush wanted to go to war for his own selfish reasons (including oil, revenge against Saddam for attempting to assassinate his father, providing contracts for certain companies like Haliburton, etc).  The Iraqi people are still not liberated (The US military still runs the country). I lot of US soldiers (over 1000) were needlessly killed (don't forget about the over 100,000 citizens in Iraq killed). Previously, 4% of the children in Iraq were starving to death, now it's 8%. If you're still pro-Bush and pro-war, I recommend checking out these  links:

iraqvictims.com - Thanks for liberating us Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair
ogrish.com - Type Iraq at the search box


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Posts: 68 | Posted: 6:03 PM on June 27, 2005 | IP
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selfish reasons?
He put his presidency on the line to free millions of people.  needlesly killed?  They died for what they belived in and what is right.  Well it is not going to happen over night.  So we must be there for a while.  If it were easy we would have sent the French.





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Posts: 23 | Posted: 9:56 PM on July 21, 2005 | IP
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They US still runs it cause the people arent ready to run it yet.

Yeah thats a lot for a war isnt? what was like 60000 that died on the first day of Dday? how long have we been in iraq now?

What you trying to make it seem like is that the US killed all those people but what you dont say is that its all the people that have died from the terroist as well.  All the car bombings kidnappings and plain murders the terroist commit is where most of those come from.

It sounds like to me you just plain hate President Bush and America.


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Posts: 97 | Posted: 10:31 PM on July 21, 2005 | IP
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Iraq was a mistake. there was no solid reason to go into Iraq. the ousting Saddam because of genocide is the only reason they could have used to "justify" the war. we had Osama bin Laden cornered before the troops were pulled out of Afganistan. if we are going to oust a dictator for tourture, why not oust Bush. our taxes are paying for torture not only in the "black sites" but in latin america where the dictators that we support are sending there troops to the US army School of Americas to be trained in tourture technuiqes. see www.soaw.org

(Edited by gumbo 12/1/2005 at 8:14 PM).


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Posts: 14 | Posted: 8:12 PM on December 1, 2005 | IP
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another piece of advice to this administration: "If Germany does not want to go to war, then we probably shouldn't."


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yes my real name is Gumbo Akmed
 


Posts: 14 | Posted: 8:13 PM on December 1, 2005 | IP
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by the way, osama bin laden was trained in the cia awhile ago, which always makes me laugh to think of. he was used for foriegn affairs as part of the cia..


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Posts: 2 | Posted: 5:19 PM on January 28, 2006 | IP
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Quote from Johnny at 11:46 PM on April 2, 2004 :
Hi  I'm new here.. and I'm only 13  

I'am a supporter of the war with Iraq, but I need to know why its was a good Idea to go there, and why we went there. I need this information.. lol

Make it short and sweet  

Johnny




You sound like a complete fool.  How can you sit there and say that you support a war when you don't even know WHY?  Oh wait I know why, because your mommy and daddy do right? I guess it's hard to know why we went there though, I'm with you on that one.  Make it short and sweet? How about you go and tell that to all the families of the soldiers who died.  You really need to get a clue about the world before you start making rude comments like that.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 7:33 PM on May 4, 2006 | IP
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Basically we are at war with Iraq because the UN is a joke.  Saddam Hussein spit in the face of the treaty he signed for, what, 12 years?  The UN would not enforce the treaty so America finally went in to finish what we started over a decade ago.  That's what we get for being compassionate in the first place.  


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Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:21 PM on May 5, 2006 | IP
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Quote from gumbo at 8:12 PM on December 1, 2005 :
Iraq was a mistake. there was no solid reason to go into Iraq. the ousting Saddam because of genocide is the only reason they could have used to "justify" the war. we had Osama bin Laden cornered before the troops were pulled out of Afganistan. if we are going to oust a dictator for tourture, why not oust Bush. our taxes are paying for torture not only in the "black sites" but in latin america where the dictators that we support are sending there troops to the US army School of Americas to be trained in tourture technuiqes. see www.soaw.org

(Edited by gumbo 12/1/2005 at 8:14 PM).

I love this mis leading statement that we pulled troups out of Afganistan. I think you should read Gen. Tommy Franks book American Solder he explains that in the Afgan war our military played a support role in that war. Most of the fighting was done buy Afganies. As far as the the only reason to go in to Iraq was genocide think again. There are millions of documents captured that are today being translated and we have learned that Sadams minister of foriegn afairs had meetings with Bin laden. Also Just one of the stashes of WMD's was 6,000 lbs of uranium refined to 30%. There is no industerial use for this material except to refine it to bomb grade. There also have been smaterings of chem. weapons used buy the insergent's in IED's the only reason that our boy's haven't died from chem. weapons is that the insurgents either don't know what they have or don't know how to release the chem. with out destroying it.    


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Posts: 127 | Posted: 6:41 PM on August 4, 2006 | IP
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There are millions of documents captured that are today being translated and we have learned that Sadams minister of foriegn afairs had meetings with Bin laden. Also Just one of the stashes of WMD's was 6,000 lbs of uranium refined to 30%. There is no industerial use for this material except to refine it to bomb grade. There also have been smaterings of chem. weapons used buy the insergent's in IED's the only reason that our boy's haven't died from chem. weapons is that the insurgents either don't know what they have or don't know how to release the chem. with out destroying it.


News to me. Source?


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:40 PM on August 4, 2006 | IP
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The source for the uranium is the british press. The rest is in a book I can't remember the name. Heard the auther on G. Gordon Liddy. The IED's were kept quiet on the chance that the insurgents didn't know what they had.


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Posts: 127 | Posted: 2:23 PM on August 5, 2006 | IP
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BUSH.. its time to withdraw the troops in Iraq.  Its a civil war over there... american soldiers getting killed by IED's every day.

BUSH how much longer do we gotta ask our soldiers to die for your massive ego?  Its a volunteer military so far, and it just amazes me why anyone would want to go to Iraq and die by an IED.
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 12:30 AM on October 6, 2006 | IP
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You honestly think Bush is doing this for his ego?  I've yet to see anything about this war that is making him "famous" or a "hero".  How, exactly, is his ego getting stroked by this war?


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Posts: 1287 | Posted: 08:10 AM on October 6, 2006 | IP
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Anyone who runs for President of the USA.. has a MASSIVE ego..lol.. this is a given..lol
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 2:21 PM on October 7, 2006 | IP
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Again, what is the current war doing to stroke his MASSIVE ego?   Oops, I forgot to add LOL at the end of the question.  Sorry.


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Posts: 1287 | Posted: 1:40 PM on October 8, 2006 | IP
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OMG.. you really dont know do you?  lol

His ego is being stroked by the fact that we are STILL there and our soldiers are dying, which massages his ego as the final man in the USA military chain of command with the final word on the entire thing.

His ego is stroked by the fact that he has the final decision.. he is enjoying that, he has the power to withdraw or stay.

The Iraq war strokes his ego... clear now?
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 2:07 PM on October 8, 2006 | IP
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He has the final decision even if he decides to withdraw, so no, I'm not following your line of thinking.


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Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:14 PM on October 8, 2006 | IP
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Quote from EntwickelnCollin at 11:40 PM on August 4, 2006 :
There are millions of documents captured that are today being translated and we have learned that Sadams minister of foriegn afairs had meetings with Bin laden. Also Just one of the stashes of WMD's was 6,000 lbs of uranium refined to 30%. There is no industerial use for this material except to refine it to bomb grade. There also have been smaterings of chem. weapons used buy the insergent's in IED's the only reason that our boy's haven't died from chem. weapons is that the insurgents either don't know what they have or don't know how to release the chem. with out destroying it.


News to me. Source?


I guess the New York times finaly got to it. Front page Iraq was 1 year away from having a functional nuke in 2002. A little late? Also documentation on alqida connections.




(Edited by TRIGGER 11/3/2006 at 9:33 PM).


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Posts: 127 | Posted: 7:31 PM on November 3, 2006 | IP
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I guess the New York times finaly got to it. Front page Iraq was 1 year away from having a functional nuke in 2002. A little late? Also documentation on alqida connections.


Come again? What non-existent facilities are we assuming he planned to utilize to make a nuclear weapon in one tenth the time it took Kim Jong Il?


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:21 PM on November 8, 2006 | IP
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Where did it say any where that there were no facilitys? I remember that there was an under ground complex that was found when we invaded that was so hot with radiation that we weren't able to search because of the radiation. And don't forget the centrifuge that was also found.. Or the 6000 lbs of nuclear material that was also found about a year ago that had been refined to 33%.... I supose you also forgot that in the early 90's when the UN weapons inspecter said that Sadam was very close to having a nuke.. He's been working on nukes since before the Isralies bombed his nuclear power plant in the 80's... But I'm sure that eluded you also..

(Edited by TRIGGER 11/9/2006 at 5:47 PM).


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Posts: 127 | Posted: 5:42 PM on November 9, 2006 | IP
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Where did it say any where that there were no facilitys? I remember that there was an under ground complex that was found when we invaded that was so hot with radiation that we weren't able to search because of the radiation. And don't forget the centrifuge that was also found.. Or the 6000 lbs of nuclear material that was also found about a year ago that had been refined to 33%.... I supose you also forgot that in the early 90's when the UN weapons inspecter said that Sadam was very close to having a nuke.. He's been working on nukes since before the Isralies bombed his nuclear power plant in the 80's... But I'm sure that eluded you also..


No kidding. You'd think the Bush administration would retract their statement about their intelligence having been wrong at the time of the invasion. Evidently, this evaded Rumsfeld, too.


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 10:45 AM on November 10, 2006 | IP
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At this point it would be pointless... The Democrats don't have the strength or character to admit that they were wrong or apoligize for their vicious attacks. The Democrats and the main stream liberal media have been beating the adminstration with this for 3 years. I beleave that the liberal Democrats have know about this from the start but for them to come out and say that the President was right on Iraq would have kept them out of power, of course it would have been the right and patriotic thing to do, to put the country before their party.

It was to jucie of an opprotunity for the democrats to pass up, they were hoping that there were no weapons found on Iraqi soil. Their base walk's in lock step with their leaders and this helps them to know end. The base won't question their leaders no matter what and if they do they are viciously attacked. Just look at Leibermen when he personaly went to Iraq he saw none of what the Press was reporting and had the guts to say so. †

I personaly, am not suprised that very few weapons were found only about 500 & 6000 lbs of refined uranium. Sadam knew we were comming 18 mo's in advance. This is where I blame the president while he played nice with the congress and bowed to them by involving the UN we could have attacked and caught Sadam flat footed with all his weapons in Iraq. While the President danced for the UN Sadam moved the weapons out and in to Syria. One of Sadams generials says they are there and Isarel intelligents also puts them there and have told the US where to find them. I have no doubt that we have a satilite parked over the site waiting to see if anyone showes up. and if they do (KABOOM).. † † †

(Edited by TRIGGER 11/10/2006 at 7:12 PM).


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Posts: 127 | Posted: 7:10 PM on November 10, 2006 | IP
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Just look at Leibermen when he personaly went to Iraq he saw none of what the Press was reporting and had the guts to say so.  


No one is dilusional enough to deny what the press have been reporting since Zarkawi was killed: that Baghdad is in a sectarian civil war. Not even Condi can get around it with anything more than "There is ethnic strife in Iraq, yes."


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 12:34 AM on November 11, 2006 | IP
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You talk to just about any soilder that has come out of Iraq and they all say the same thing the violence is in just 2 provinces. You go any where else and the country is being rebuilt the people are happy and grateful for the chance to be free. Heres what the guys I know have said that to look at the US news you would think you were in a diffrent country. There is no balance with our press, if you were to report every homicide, assalt, rape, armed robbery, riot and molestation in the US and that is all you reported you would think that the US was god forsaken place to live, but it isn't since 70 to 80 % of us will live most of our lives and never be a victum of violent a crime. This is how our press reports in Iraq they never mention the 3000 schools that have been opened, all the hospitals that have been rebuilt and reopened, all the new businesses that have started up, or how that 90% of the country is peaceful a prosperious. Nope can't do that it would help the president and republicans, nope no perspective in Iraq thats for sure. † † † †

(Edited by TRIGGER 11/11/2006 at 4:58 PM).


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Posts: 127 | Posted: 09:46 AM on November 11, 2006 | IP
EntwickelnCollin

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You talk to just about any soilder that has come out of Iraq and they all say the same thing the violence is in just 2 provinces. You go any where else and the country is being rebuilt the people are happy and grateful for the chance to be free.


If you re-read what I said, you'll see I was referring to Baghdad.

Regardless of where the fighting is at, it's unacceptable that upwards of 50 Iraqis are either getting killed or going missing per day.

This is how our press reports in Iraq they never mention the 3000 schools that have been opened, all the hospitals that have been rebuilt and reopened, all the new businesses that have started up, or how that 90% of the country is peaceful a prosperious. Nope can't do that it would help the president and republicans, nope no perspective in Iraq thats for sure.


This is the number one point you can always count on proponents of the Iraq War to say: "The schools! Look at all of 'em!"

It does nothing to offset the very likely possiblity that twice as many Iraqis have died as a result of the Iraq War than were murdered by Suddam's regime. If the region is so stable, what is stopping us from pacifying the entire country? In Baghdad, our own soldiers don't guard anything but convoys and the walls of the Green Zone and airport. That's it. The rest of the city is left literally defenseless against its own people, and it's because it's swarming with countless tens of thousands of people who are ready at any moment to take up an RPG-7 and a Kalashnikov against our troops.


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 7:13 PM on November 11, 2006 | IP
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Quote from EntwickelnCollin at 7:13 PM on November 11, 2006 :




Regardless of where the fighting is at, it's unacceptable that upwards of 50 Iraqis are either getting killed or going missing per day.


There is always a price to pay for freedom we payed a hell of a lot more for our freedom.

This is the number one point you can always count on proponents of the Iraq War to say: "The schools! Look at all of 'em!"


And this is the point that the opponents of the war would like to forget has happened along with saying our troups are baby killers..

It does nothing to offset the very likely possiblity that twice as many Iraqis have died as a result of the Iraq War than were murdered by Suddam's regime.


Wrong Sadam murdered 150,000 kurds in one chemical attack. It would takeover 8 years at 50 a day and that was in just one attack. Please get your facts straight before you put your foot in your mouth.

If the region is so stable, what is stopping us from pacifying the entire country?



These guys are the guys that ran the previous government we should have wiped them out in the beginning in stead the President danced nice so not to offend the Democrates.

In Baghdad, our own soldiers don't guard anything but convoys and the walls of the Green Zone and airport. That's it.


Wrong our guys are making sweeps and incursions. Just talked to buddy of mine that just got back. Please stop using the liberal talking points and use your own common sense and brain and not the liberal regurgitation..

The rest of the city is left literally defenseless against its own people, and it's because it's swarming with countless tens of thousands of people who are ready at any moment to take up an RPG-7 and a Kalashnikov against our troops.


Wrong our guys go in and clear an area then talk to the police ask them if they are all set and can handle thing's. After we leave the insergents come in and tell the athoritys police etc. That if they helped us. their families will be killed. Up lets just run away from these guys.




(Edited by TRIGGER 11/12/2006 at 12:26 AM).

(Edited by TRIGGER 3/31/2007 at 09:47 AM).

(Edited by TRIGGER 3/31/2007 at 09:49 AM).

(Edited by TRIGGER 3/31/2007 at 09:51 AM).


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Posts: 127 | Posted: 12:23 AM on November 12, 2006 | IP
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There is always a price to pay for freedom we payed a hell of a lot more for our freedom.


The difference being that the newly-freed Shiites are the ones causing the majority of the havoc. Their police force has been corrupted top to bottom. Group kidnappings and executions are often carried out and hidden by the very people we trained to fight insurgents.

And this is the point that the opponents of the war would like to forget has happened along with saying our troups are baby killers..


Iíve never forgotten about it because itís a worthless figure.

Wrong Sadam murdered 150,000 kurds in one chemical attack. It would takeover 8 years at 50 a day and that was in just one attack. Please get your facts straight before you put your foot in your mouth.


Oh no, you see, I was being quite generous with that number, 50 a day. Itís been over a hundred a day for several weeks in September and October. Right now we're looking at roughly 50 kidnapped a day and 50 killed a day. More or less 100 a day as is, because the people who get kidnapped rarely turn up alive, if at all.

Youíre also understating Suddamís brutality. According to Condileeza Rice, Suddam murdered approximately 300,000 people.

ÖAnd according to Johns Hopkins University, 600,000 have died since the invasion of 2003:

USA Today

The figure is based on surveys of households throughout most of the country. It vastly exceeds estimates cited by the Iraqi government, the United Nations, aid and anti-war groups, and President Bush.

You can claim the figure it inaccurate, just as Bush did, but if 600,000 people arenít dead, that just means 600,000 people are missing. Theyíre gone. Their families have no idea where they are.


If the region is so stable, what is stopping us from pacifying the entire country?





These guys are the guys that ran the previous government we should have wiped them out in the beginning in stead the President danced nice so not to offend the Democrates.


I donít even understand how that is a response to my question.

Wrong our guys are making sweeps and incursions. Just talked to buddy of mine that just got back. Please stop using the liberal talking points and use your own common sense and brain and not the liberal regurgitation..


And all those incursions do, according to all 26 of our own intelligence agencies, is create more insurgents! (Donít forget our troops who die in the process.)

Wrong our guys go in and clear an area then talk to the police ask them if they are all set and can handle thing's. After we leave the insergents come in and tell the athoritys police etc. That if they helped us. their families will be killed. Up lets just run away from these guys.


Thatís exactly my point. Itís like looking for Viet Congóan impossible task.



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Posts: 729 | Posted: 12:48 AM on November 12, 2006 | IP
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Quote from EntwickelnCollin at 12:48 AM on November 12, 2006 :


The difference being that the newly-freed Shiites are the ones causing the majority of the havoc. Their police force has been corrupted top to bottom. Group kidnappings and executions are often carried out and hidden by the very people we trained to fight insurgents.


Not realy the shea started the unrest. The shiites are striking back probably reprisal for the sheas unprovoked attacks.


Iíve never forgotten about it because itís a worthless figure.


I guess for you to have 70% of the country living peacefuly and no longer in squaler is   worthless I guess for you.



Oh no, you see, I was being quite generous with that number, 50 a day. Itís been over a hundred a day for several weeks in September and October. Right now we're looking at roughly 50 kidnapped a day and 50 killed a day. More or less 100 a day as is, because the people who get kidnapped rarely turn up alive, if at all.


How many of these are death by natural causes? As you know the radical muslums are very adept at propaganda and will boost the numbers killed by adding natural death to those numbers. In the middle east there are medical problems caused by their culture allowing first cousins to marry. This causes their life expectancy to be much lower than it should be.  

Youíre also understating Suddamís brutality. According to Condileeza Rice, Suddam murdered approximately 300,000 people.

ÖAnd according to Johns Hopkins University, 600,000 have died since the invasion of 2003:


Personaly I wouldn't beleave much that came out of that liberal institution but that would put it at 200 a day every day.. no exceptions since the war began. Or out of USA to day either.
USA Today

The figure is based on surveys of households throughout most of the country. It vastly exceeds estimates cited by the Iraqi government, the United Nations, aid and anti-war groups, and President Bush.

You can claim the figure it inaccurate, just as Bush did, but if 600,000 people arenít dead, that just means 600,000 people are missing. Theyíre gone. Their families have no idea where they are.


And I am sure they make a distintion between cobatants and innocents...



These guys are the guys that ran the previous government we should have wiped them out in the beginning in stead the President danced nice so not to offend the Democrates.


I donít even understand how that is a response to my question.

Wrong our guys are making sweeps and incursions. Just talked to buddy of mine that just got back. Please stop using the liberal talking points and use your own common sense and brain and not the liberal regurgitation..


And all those incursions do, according to all 26 of our own intelligence agencies, is create more insurgents! (Donít forget our troops who die in the process.)


No it dosn't if you want to know what the muslum exstreamists are doing to recrute you need to see what the liberals and the main stream media don't want you to see or know it,s a documentary. Heres a link this will give you an idea as to what we are facing from these animals. This is why we can't stop this war it will only make them stronger..

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/

Wrong our guys go in and clear an area then talk to the police ask them if they are all set and can handle thing's. After we leave the insergents come in and tell the athoritys police etc. That if they helped us. their families will be killed. Up lets just run away from these guys.


Thatís exactly my point. Itís like looking for Viet Congóan impossible task.


It may be but it is the only course we may have to bring around the peaceful muslums to realize that if they don't fight for their religion they will be at the mercy of the extreamists as we are.







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Posts: 127 | Posted: 11:41 PM on November 18, 2006 | IP
    
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