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thistownwilleatu

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What are our duties to the starving and suffering specifically overseas?  The leading cause of death in 3rd world countries is dehydration through diarrhea, a 15 cent packet of hydration salts can prevent this.  What do we as people making hundreds of times the money and driving SUVs owe to the people who have trouble keeping their children alive?  And if we do have a responsibility why don't we act on it?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:32 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
locagirl

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on a similar note, do you think that we should be donating to people in 3rd world countries when people in America are also starving? obviously our situation is far better than other countries, but shouldn't our efforts be geared towards helping the people in our nation??

personally...i dont know where i stand. i definately think rich people should help poor people...but the question is if i have $X to donate, where should it go?
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 10:39 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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this is a hard one, i think we need toi take care of our own before thrying to help the poor in other countries.   i think this has been a major problem with our country from the begining, we cant seem to keep our noses out of other peoples business.

but to the poor in our own country, there is alot out there that really need help, and want to make their lifes better, and i believe they should be helped, but there is also alot that just take advantage of the system and of generous individuals.  i say dont help them.  so it is very hard to determine what we should do.  i do think that people that are on welfare should somehow be stopped from having ore kids, or punished for having more.

this is a tuff one.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 10:58 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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I think the difference between helping OUR people and helping overseas, is that over seas, they don't have the opportunities that we have here.

There really is no excuse for anyone in America to not take care of themselves (although, i do realize there are exceptions)

Actually, a lot of people that are homeless, CHOOSE to be homeless, they would rather live on the street and just take donations from passersby.

But overall...I think that the USA is the greatest nation in the world...we are really the LEADER of the world.
And with that "title", comes a responsibility to help and protect the rest of the innocent people of the world.

That's my view!

peace


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 11:33 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i think we should aid starving or diseased people around the world, but we should stay out of everything else (politics, for example)


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:48 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Well there is a difference between the absolute "I'm starving to death and dying of disease" poverty overseas in say Sudan, and the "I'm addicted to crank, lost my job and now have to sleep outside until i get a job" poverty in urban America.  I'm not saying that we should ignore the homeless in America, but if you had a starving child from Kenya and a homeless guy from New York at your feet I think most of us would give it to the greater need.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:13 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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The problem is that america helps these countries in the wrong way....we try to cure the symptoms not the cause. We send them loads of flour and meshed cracked grain. We need instead send them seeds hoes and shovels and say "have at it" africa has some of the most fertile land in the world but it goes un cultivated. As the saying goes "give a man a fish and feed him for a day....teach a man to fish and feed him for life". We cant send them things like tractors and stuff bc in the rural areas it would be hard to come by Fuel for the equipment and if it broke then they could not afford to fix it. We shoud send them things like ox boughs and maybe some animals to help (domesticated wilderbeast or water buffalos) We need to help them in a matter that would be self sustaining and not prone to failure ie. mechanical equipment. When they establish a better standard of living for themselves with this help then we should invest in them better with mechanical equpment. One reason vietnam turned against us and went communist was bc the russians would do things like engineer water pumps and useful farm equipment out of simple things like bicycles and would give it to them. This was far better than the complex mechanical water pumps we would send them that most people didnt have fuel for and if it broke then they where out of luck. There are millions of bicycles in vietnam and if the man powered bicycle broke then they could simply fix it themselves with one of the bikes. Many rural vietnamese favored the communist bc they showed that there ideas (such as this) worked better. Thus a new communist was born.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 04:41 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I agree.  We need to address WHY there are poor.  $75 buys enough seeds to harvest 2 and a half tons of grain is what i read on UNICEF's site.  Good point madbilly.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 05:41 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
Chai

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but it doesn't do any good when most of the govrenments are dictatorships or have simply reverted back to tribal government. Without a strong government, all the solutions are only temporary. Andjust funneling money there doesn't do any good, either.
 


Posts: 30 | Posted: 10:29 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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America has a tendency to try and solve problems with money...everything america does both good and bad has to do with money. We throw money at every problem and hopes it can solve it. We need instead to try and solve problems by thinking. We need to figure out ways to help these people that do live under tribal rule or dictatorships, obviously we didnt try to hard with somalia,we just sent them food and the dictators and warlords would just take it from the people...if we would have instead air dropped into the city food vouchers that where redemable at UN designated and protected sites then the warlords could not have taken the loads of food we sent in. Or if we sent in tools and seed then the warlords and dictators would not have probaly taken the goods bc it directly wasnt worth much and it would need  work and time to benefit from the equipment and seed. These are just speculation but we will never know if maybe these ideas would have worked, and hind sight is 20/20...just a thought i guess.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 04:27 AM on December 14, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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we're a capitalist country...of course we're gonna try and solve everything with money


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:30 AM on December 14, 2002 | IP
Bograt

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I agree with the idea of sending seeds and simple hand tools. If we just send food, then the power-through-hunger warlords will just take and horde it for their supporters. Give 'em seeds and the warlords MUST let the poor, starving masses "have at it" for themselves, or else they will have no food to steal in the first place.



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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 9:01 PM on December 17, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

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I hate to be the purely hard nosed SOB here.  But there is a practical reason to send aid overseas.  Imagine the impact to a starving person when he gets a sack of flour with a US flag on it?  Or how about when a doctor is giving out vaccinations from a box with a US flag on it?  You can't get any better propaganda than that.

I don't think of helping people with money as "helping people with money".  I think of it in a capitalist terms, it is a long term investment.  What is wrong with building business, developing new markets, raising the living standard of more "consumers".  Of course you need a stable government before you can do that.  Until a country can do that for themselves, then all we can do is just funnel money.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 7:46 PM on January 23, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i agree to a certain extent. we should give aid to the hungry and sick in third-world countries. but we should not develop new markets in those countries. you can help raise the standard of living without sending US businesses there. globalization is a bad thing. unfortunately, it is inevitable.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 8:23 PM on January 23, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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It is very idealist to think you can help third world countries feed themselves without industrialization.  Do you think third world poor will be satisfied with clean water, fertilizer, and healthy crops?  After they get then they are not going to be satisfied with weaving baskets, picking wild berries, and preserving unique cultural festivals.  They are all going to want MTV too.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:29 AM on January 25, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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most people in 3rd world countries would rather retain their traditions and culture. globalism destroys culture (except western).

we need to do our best to help TEACH the people in these 3rd world countries about the best way to grow healthy crops and using fertilizer. in the meantime, we can feed them. once they are taught, they MIGHT be fine on their own.

many people think that the reason why civilizations in 3rd world countries (particularaly africa) never reached the heighth of western civilization is because they are "dumber" or not as "intelligent". that simply is not true. let me tell you why they have not progressed as much. the soil in africa is extremely weak. since the beginning of the agricultural revolution to this day, africans have had trouble with agriculture because the soil is so weak. there are no minerals in the soil at all. therefore, when africans farmed, they could only barely make enough food for themselves. meanwhile, other civilizations had a surplus whenever they farmed. the fact that africans did not have a surplus slowed down "specialization". specialization is when different people are assigned to different tasks. but all africans had to grow their own food because there was never a surplus. without a lot of specialization, there is very little technology. actually, the africans did a very wonderful job considering how weak the soil is. and that is what many people do not realize.



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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 1:58 PM on January 25, 2003 | IP
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all the soil in africa isnt bad...just in the savannah and obviously in the desserts. The sub jungle and jungle regions have very fertile soil.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:51 PM on January 30, 2003 | IP
Fender

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 02:48 AM on December 9, 2002 :
i think we should aid starving or diseased people around the world, but we should stay out of everything else (politics, for example)


and in doing so prop up the corrupt leaders of those countries by allowing them to escape the wrath of the people for the conditions they live in,most rebbellions occur when the people are so fed up with their lives that they revolt.

 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 8:08 PM on May 24, 2005 | IP
Fender

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Quote from thistownwilleatu at 10:32 PM on December 8, 2002 :
What are our duties to the starving and suffering specifically overseas?  The leading cause of death in 3rd world countries is dehydration through diarrhea, a 15 cent packet of hydration salts can prevent this.  What do we as people making hundreds of times the money and driving SUVs owe to the people who have trouble keeping their children alive?  And if we do have a responsibility why don't we act on it?



I see you fail to list the reasons for these conditions such as ignorance both cutural and practical,despotic leaders,tradions that lock people in perpetual poverty,hand outs will not solve anything,you also make the false assumption that nothing is being done an assumption often made by critics of capitalism and or anything American.This nation prospers because of the emphasis placed on education,enterprise and invention,praying to monkey gods or starving to death with cattle all around you because you think they are long lost relatives will always produce poverty.
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 8:21 PM on May 24, 2005 | IP
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Fender you know nothing of poverty, or starvation in the 3rd world.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 9:01 PM on May 24, 2005 | IP
K8

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Quote from Fender at 8:21 PM on May 24, 2005 :
Quote from thistownwilleatu at 10:32 PM on December 8, 2002 :
What are our duties to the starving and suffering specifically overseas?  The leading cause of death in 3rd world countries is dehydration through diarrhea, a 15 cent packet of hydration salts can prevent this.  What do we as people making hundreds of times the money and driving SUVs owe to the people who have trouble keeping their children alive?  And if we do have a responsibility why don't we act on it?



I see you fail to list the reasons for these conditions such as ignorance both cutural and practical,despotic leaders,tradions that lock people in perpetual poverty,hand outs will not solve anything,you also make the false assumption that nothing is being done an assumption often made by critics of capitalism and or anything American.This nation prospers because of the emphasis placed on education,enterprise and invention,praying to monkey gods or starving to death with cattle all around you because you think they are long lost relatives will always produce poverty.


'hand outs' aren't always the best option - i agree. People actually travelling to these countries and attempting to introduce new, innovative and sustainable practices to do with agriculture and perhaps even industry is usually far more beneficial. That way, these people can teach the locals how to sustain these practices, thereby helping them in the long term.

They need help - as human beings it's our responsibility, as citizens of highly developed countries, to do something.  

 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 03:22 AM on May 25, 2005 | IP
Fender

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Quote from Peter87 at 9:01 PM on May 24, 2005 :
Fender you know nothing of poverty, or starvation in the 3rd world.



and you know nothing about politics,economics or how certain cultures breed poverty,you are exceptionaly ignorant on the subject and offer nothing but hand outs which solve nothing,congratulations for offering absolutley nothing to solve the problem.
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 6:11 PM on May 25, 2005 | IP
Fender

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Quote from K8 at 03:22 AM on May 25, 2005 :
Quote from Fender at 8:21 PM on May 24, 2005 :
Quote from thistownwilleatu at 10:32 PM on December 8, 2002 :
What are our duties to the starving and suffering specifically overseas?  The leading cause of death in 3rd world countries is dehydration through diarrhea, a 15 cent packet of hydration salts can prevent this.  What do we as people making hundreds of times the money and driving SUVs owe to the people who have trouble keeping their children alive?  And if we do have a responsibility why don't we act on it?



I see you fail to list the reasons for these conditions such as ignorance both cutural and practical,despotic leaders,tradions that lock people in perpetual poverty,hand outs will not solve anything,you also make the false assumption that nothing is being done an assumption often made by critics of capitalism and or anything American.This nation prospers because of the emphasis placed on education,enterprise and invention,praying to monkey gods or starving to death with cattle all around you because you think they are long lost relatives will always produce poverty.


'hand outs' aren't always the best option - i agree. People actually travelling to these countries and attempting to introduce new, innovative and sustainable practices to do with agriculture and perhaps even industry is usually far more beneficial. That way, these people can teach the locals how to sustain these practices, thereby helping them in the long term.

They need help - as human beings it's our responsibility, as citizens of highly developed countries, to do something.  




again you assume that nothing is being done,alot of the time when food or medicine is sent it winds up on the black market or the friends of the leaders who typicaly are already well fed get it,not the people.The governments of these countries are incredibly corrupt and unless you are willing to do a little policing to see that the aid gets to where it is needed you might as well roll the dice.I agree that they need help but unless you are willing to acknowledge the role that war,corrupt politics and despotism play in poverty and starvation then it is all just an emotional excercise to make yourself feel better by throwing money and stuff at a problem and never realy hitting anything.

 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 6:20 PM on May 25, 2005 | IP
Lord Iorek

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Fender, by throwing money and food at the problem you hope that the problem will be solved. This however only makes the problem worse.

Let me explain,

The main reason for food shortages in areas such as Africa and South America is overpopulation. In developing countries the population is growing out of control. And by sending food to these countries you are letting the overpopulation to continue. Instead of food, you should be educating these starving people about contraception. Only then will the problem subside. However in South America which is 99% Catholic they do not use contraception and as a result, in countries such as Bolivia children live in garbage dumps barely living on what they can find.

I know I sound like a heartless bastard but this is the truth. Feeding them only lasts till their next meal.


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"At the age of six I wanted to be a cook. At seven I wanted to be Napoleon. And my ambition has been growing steadily ever since." - Salvador Dali

Guide the future by the past, long ago the mould was cast. - Rush
 


Posts: 121 | Posted: 7:16 PM on May 25, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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Quote from Fender at 6:11 PM on May 25, 2005 :
Quote from Peter87 at 9:01 PM on May 24, 2005 :
Fender you know nothing of poverty, or starvation in the 3rd world.



and you know nothing about politics,economics or how certain cultures breed poverty,you are exceptionaly ignorant on the subject and offer nothing but hand outs which solve nothing,congratulations for offering absolutley nothing to solve the problem.


Wow, you must be psycic to tell my knoledge of politics and economics from one sentence. Monkey gods, name me one starving country country that worships monkey gods. Again name me one that doesn't eat cows. I think you will find that the majority of the starving countries in the world are iether catholic or muslim. Both of which have very sucesful countries as well.
On the topic of hand-outs, I belive that we should train and teach them on how to farm how to use contraception etc. However there is not ENOUGTH (not surgesting nothing) money being put into help for this to be sucesful on a large scale. Therefore as a short term solution until there is the proper funding and investment we should continue to give our huge food surpluses to these countries and yes police them properly.

Now I am not saying this is the solution, I'm merely saying that it is better than allowing these inocent people to starve to death. And I firmly belive that we should invest more money into educating people in farming, fishing etc.

We should also encourage them to use contrception, to reduce the massive increase in population, however the soding catholic church has no problem with the developed world using contraception because this would lead to masses of people turning to a differnt denomination. However it still holds the cold grip of religion over the 3rd world and denies these people contraception allowing the spread of STI's and increasing an already starving population.

Oh and NO culture breeds poverty, just its standing in the world.





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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 3:23 PM on May 26, 2005 | IP
K8

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Quote from Fender at 6:20 PM on May 25, 2005 :
Quote from K8 at 03:22 AM on May 25, 2005 :
Quote from Fender at 8:21 PM on May 24, 2005 :
Quote from thistownwilleatu at 10:32 PM on December 8, 2002 :
What are our duties to the starving and suffering specifically overseas?  The leading cause of death in 3rd world countries is dehydration through diarrhea, a 15 cent packet of hydration salts can prevent this.  What do we as people making hundreds of times the money and driving SUVs owe to the people who have trouble keeping their children alive?  And if we do have a responsibility why don't we act on it?



I see you fail to list the reasons for these conditions such as ignorance both cutural and practical,despotic leaders,tradions that lock people in perpetual poverty,hand outs will not solve anything,you also make the false assumption that nothing is being done an assumption often made by critics of capitalism and or anything American.This nation prospers because of the emphasis placed on education,enterprise and invention,praying to monkey gods or starving to death with cattle all around you because you think they are long lost relatives will always produce poverty.


'hand outs' aren't always the best option - i agree. People actually travelling to these countries and attempting to introduce new, innovative and sustainable practices to do with agriculture and perhaps even industry is usually far more beneficial. That way, these people can teach the locals how to sustain these practices, thereby helping them in the long term.

They need help - as human beings it's our responsibility, as citizens of highly developed countries, to do something.  




again you assume that nothing is being done,alot of the time when food or medicine is sent it winds up on the black market or the friends of the leaders who typicaly are already well fed get it,not the people.The governments of these countries are incredibly corrupt and unless you are willing to do a little policing to see that the aid gets to where it is needed you might as well roll the dice.I agree that they need help but unless you are willing to acknowledge the role that war,corrupt politics and despotism play in poverty and starvation then it is all just an emotional excercise to make yourself feel better by throwing money and stuff at a problem and never realy hitting anything.



My post was actually about how it is far better to monitor how aid is received in a country and what is done with it. I said that hand-outs aren't always the best option - i agreed with you. I said that sustainable practices must be implemented in countries in need. And the whole point of sending people to such places is so governments have little chance of interferring (though it completely depends on the country and its government). Read my post, next time.

 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:16 AM on May 27, 2005 | IP
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The problem is that we see our planet as separate countries with borders putting people in separate groups. To solve the problem of poverty and hunger, we need science to find the answers. All technologies, including GMO (gentically modified organisms) and nanotechnology are key to solving these issues. Nanotechnology has the potential of creating food out of thin air by rearranging the molecules around the "nanobots". But for now GMOs provide the best solution for countries that have food shortage issues (especially third world). As for separate countries, we need to merge all nations into a world government so people asking which countries have the worst food issues would disappear. Every person who be accounted for.


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Posts: 68 | Posted: 6:25 PM on June 27, 2005 | IP
    
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