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postmodernist

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do you think we should have waited to give them their country back?


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Posts: 5 | Posted: 9:43 PM on July 2, 2004 | IP
luke9

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In Iraq no
We should hand over power asap


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Posts: 23 | Posted: 3:20 PM on June 16, 2005 | IP
Raelian1

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Bush and the US military cult should have never invaded Iraq in the first place. That been said, The US troops need to be removed from Iraq as soon as possible.


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Posts: 68 | Posted: 1:07 PM on June 23, 2005 | IP
skins38

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Lets not debate if we should be there or not.  If we left now every soldier dying would be invain.  the country would go back to the state it was in before we liberated them.  We have to stay until the Iraq' is ready to rule for themselves


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Posts: 97 | Posted: 5:32 PM on June 23, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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I don't think you fully understand just how long that will be. A country can only liberate its self.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 8:50 PM on June 23, 2005 | IP
rob74696

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I agree, how will it ever be proven if they are ready to govern themselves until given the chance with NO outside interferance? As for the soldiers dying in vain, as long as they are able to govern themselves there would be no death in vain because that is what they were fighting and dying for. I just hope they are proud of themselves (the soldiers that died I mean) because I am certainly proud to have them on my side.


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Posts: 41 | Posted: 8:40 PM on June 24, 2005 | IP
Raelian1

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Quote from skins38 at 5:32 PM on June 23, 2005 :
Lets not debate if we should be there or not.  If we left now every soldier dying would be invain.  the country would go back to the state it was in before we liberated them.  We have to stay until the Iraq' is ready to rule for themselves



Those soldiers shouldn't have been there in the first place. We need to get them out ASAP. Keeping there is only making this illegal occupation worse. What about the innocent people dying there? These soldiers commit murder to innocent people there everyday. They and their higher ups (including Bush) must be prosecuted for their crimes.


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Posts: 68 | Posted: 4:47 PM on June 25, 2005 | IP
luke9

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They should definatly be there.  Yes we need to ahnd over power asap i agree with that.  Yes most likely some people have been murdered but not on that scale.  There are in a war zone with an enemy with no uniform, with no rules and uses the general population as there shield.  There are going to be inocent casualties.  Since when has freein MILLIONS of people been a crime.


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Posts: 23 | Posted: 11:54 PM on June 25, 2005 | IP
skins38

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People like you disgust me.  You have no evidence at all for that.  I have known people that have and are fighting in iraq.  One of them even gave his life up so people like you can say that bs.  and you tell me there over there killing innocent people.  Do you realize they are over there fighting for you?  so you can say crap like that.  Why isnt the news all over this?  cause we all know if the news can make anything  president bush is doing sound bad they will and they arent saying a word.  Let me guess its all a conspiracy.  the presidents real plan is world domination.

You simply make me sick.


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Posts: 97 | Posted: 12:23 AM on June 26, 2005 | IP
Raelian1

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Quote from skins38 at 12:23 AM on June 26, 2005 :
People like you disgust me.  You have no evidence at all for that.  I have known people that have and are fighting in iraq.  One of them even gave his life up so people like you can say that bs.  and you tell me there over there killing innocent people.  Do you realize they are over there fighting for you?  so you can say crap like that.  Why isnt the news all over this?  cause we all know if the news can make anything  president bush is doing sound bad they will and they arent saying a word.  Let me guess its all a conspiracy.  the presidents real plan is world domination.

You simply make me sick.


People (US soliders) who are fighting in Iraq shouldn't have been there in the first place. Yes, I'm saddened by the fact that US soliders are been killed (over 1000), but I'm even more saddened that 100,000 plus Iraqi citizens are being killed (yes I meant 100,000). The Iraqi citizens didn't have a choice but the US soldiers did! They are fighting for me? Iraq and Saddam was never a threat to US citizens. Saddam Hussein became more powerful thanks to the US between 1960 and 1990. Yes, George "Brainhole Terrorist" Bush wants to rule the world. I make you sick? Given the fact that you consider dead Iraqis (especially children) "collateral damage" you should ashame of yourself.

Here's an image for your viewing pleasure:


Also, check out these links:
iraqvictims.com - Thanks for liberating us Mr. Bush and Mr Blair
ogrish.com - Type Iraq at search box.


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Posts: 68 | Posted: 6:13 PM on June 27, 2005 | IP
luke9

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100,000 there is absolutly no way to confirm that number.  That is far from a fact its a guess.  Where did you find that number??  Its not bs.  I was just talking to a soldier on the 4th of July.  And he said moral is very high because they BELIVE in this mission.  re-enlistments are at RECORD highs.  They are putting there lives on the line every day and they still belive in the mission.  Yes some Iraqies have died at the hands of the US soldiers.  This is war that happens it is horrible but impossible to totally eliminate innocent casualites.  Especially when the enenmy knows no rules and uses the general population as there shield.  Have you ever heard of our Liberal media?  I have heard from every soldier I have talked to that for every bad thing that comes out of Iraq 5 good things happen.  This is a REAL email that I recieved from a soldiers family froma soldier.  Who is going to be better to judege the situation in Iraq some Anchor sitting in an AC studio.  Or a GI swettin bullets on the ground in Iraq getting shot at every day?

ANY ONE WHO DOUBTS THE WAR READ THIS!!!

Went to an AUSA dinner last night at the Ft.  Hood Officers' Club to hear
a speech by MG Pete Chiarelli, CG of the 1st Cav Div.  He and most of the
Div. have just returned from Iraq.  Very informative and, surprise, the
Mainstream Media (MSM) isn't telling the story.  I was not there as a
reporter, didn't take notes but I'll make some the points I remember that
were interesting, surprising or generally stuff I had not heard before.
It was not a speech per se.  He just walked and talked, showed some slides
and answered questions.  Very impressive guy.

1.  While units of the Cav served all over Iraq, he spoke mostly of
Baghdad and more specifically Sadr City, the big slum on the eastern side
of the Tigris River. (where Tim is) He pointed out that Baghdad is, in
geography, is
about the size of Austin.  Austin has 600,000 to 700,000 people.  Baghdad
has 6 to 7 million people.

2.  The Cav lost 28 main battle tanks.  He said one of the big lessons
learned is that, contrary to doctrine going in, M1-A2s and Bradleys are
needed, preferred and devastating in urban combat and he is going to make
that point to the JCS next week while they are considering downsizing
armor.

3.  He showed a graph of attacks in Sadr City by month.  Last Aug-Sep they
were getting up to 160 attacks per week.  During the last three months,
the graph had flatlined at below 5 to zero per week.

4.  His big point was not that they were "winning battles" to do this but
that cleaning the place up, electricity, sewage, water were the key
factors. He said yes they fought but after they started delivering
services that the Iraqis in Sadr City had never had, the terrorist
recruiting of 15 and 16 year olds came up empty.

5.  The electrical "grid" is a bad, deadly joke.  Said that driving down
the street in a Humvee with an antenna would short out a whole block of
apt. buildings.  People do their own wiring and it was not uncommon for
early morning patrols would find one or two people lying dead in the
street, having been electrocuted trying to re-wire their own homes.

6.  Said that not tending to a dead body in the Muslim culture never
happens. On election day, after suicide bombers blew themselves up trying
to take out polling places, voters would step up to the body lying there,
spit on it, and move up in the line to vote.

7.  Pointed out that we all heard from the media about the 100 Iraqis
killed as they were lined up to enlist in the police and security service.
What the media didn't point out was that the next day there 300 lined up
in the same place.

8.  Said bin Laden and Zarqawi made a HUGE mistake when bin Laden went
public with naming Zarqawi the "prince" of al Qaeda in Iraq.  Said that
what the Iraqis saw and heard was a Saudi telling a Jordanian that his job
was to kill Iraqis.  HUGE mistake.  It was one of the biggest factors in
getting Iraqis who were on the "fence" to jump off on the side of the
coalition and the new gov't.

9.  Said the MSM was making a big, and wrong, deal out of the religious
sects.  Said Iraqis are incredibly nationalistic.  They are Iraqis first
and then say they are Muslim but the Shi'a - Sunni thing is just not that
big a deal to them.

10.  After the election the Mayor of Baghdad told him that the people of
the region (Middle East) are joyous and the governments are nervous.

11.  Said that he did not lose a single tanker truck carrying oil and gas
over the roads of Iraq.  Think about that.  All the attacks we saw on TV
with IEDs hitting trucks but he didn't lose one.  Why?  Army Aviation.
Praised his air units and said they made the decision early on that every
convoy would have helicopter air cover.  Said aviators in that unit were
hitting the 1,000 hour mark (sound familiar?).  Said a convoy was supposed
to head out but stopped at the gates of a compound on the command of an
E6.  He asked the SSG what the hold up was.  E6 said, "Air , sir." He
wondered what was wrong with the air, not realizing what the kid was
talking about.  Then the AH-64s showed up and the E6 said, "That air sir."
And then moved out.

12.  Said one of the biggest problems was money and regs.  There was a $77
million gap between the supplemental budget and what he needed in cash on
the ground to get projects started.  Said he spent most of his time trying
to get money.  Said he didn't do much as a "combat commander" because the
war he was fighting was a war at the squad and platoon level.  Said that
his NCOs were winning the war and it was a sight to behold.

13.  Said that of all the money appropriated for Iraq, not a cent was
earmarked for agriculture.  Said that Iraq could feed itself completely
and still have food for export but no one thought about it.  Said the Cav
started working with Texas A&M on "ag" projects and had special hybrid
seeds sent to them through Jordan.  TAM analyzed soil samples and worked
out how and what to plant.  Said he had an E7 from Belton, TX (just down
the road from Ft. Hood) who was almost single-handedly rebuilding the ag
industry in the Baghdad area.

14.  Said he could hire hundreds of Iraqis daily for $7 to $10 a day to
work on sewer, electric, water projects, etc.  but that the contracting
rules from CONUS applied so he had to have $500,000 insurance policies in
place in case the workers got hurt.  Not kidding.  The CONUS peacetime
regs slowed everything down, even if they could eventually get waivers for
the regs.

There was more, lots more, but the idea is that you haven't heard any of
this from anyone, at least I hadn't and I pay more attention than most.

Great stuff.  We should be proud.  Said the Cav troops said it was ALL
worth it on Jan.  30 when they saw how the Iraqis handled election day.

Made them very proud of their service and what they had accomplished.



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luke
 


Posts: 23 | Posted: 7:32 PM on July 9, 2005 | IP
    
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