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billvandegiessen

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    Is it right to teach a theory as scientific fact.  Even scientists admit evolution is only a theory.
Why, then, is it taught in our classrooms as factual history?  Even our beloved Discovery Channel has embraced this theory as fact.  Does anyone out there see a problem with this?
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 6:22 PM on July 22, 2003 | IP
billvandegiessen

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Does anyone care?  Does anyone see a direct link to the constant fall of humanity by catering to the evolution theory?
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 10:52 AM on July 26, 2003 | IP
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Quote from billvandegiessen at 6:22 PM on July 22, 2003 :
    Is it right to teach a theory as scientific fact.  Even scientists admit evolution is only a theory.


You don't know what the scientific definition of a theory is. I'll summarize, with vocabulary words bolded: we observe the world around us, gathering observations of facts. We sometimes formulate laws, which are generalizations about our observations. We also sometimes come up with theories, which are explanations for certain observations. The theory of gravity is an explanation of observations of the fact of gravity. The theory of evolution is an explanation of observations of the fact of evolution. Get it?

In science, "theory" does not mean "guess". Gravity is "just a theory", but if you think that makes it any less of a fact I invite you to jump off a tall building to test it.
 


Posts: 14 | Posted: 7:59 PM on January 11, 2005 | IP
Yod Heh Vav Heh

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Heliocentrism is just a theory, sure, it's factual and you'd have to be ignorant, stupid or insane to deny it, but people do. Should we cow down to these people when they don't want it being taught in schools since it's a theory? No. Same with evolution.  There's isn't a graduation from theory to fact in science, that's equivocating the terms from science into modern vernacular.

I love this quote... also from the National Academy of Science... for people who say "evolution is JUST a theory, not a law or a fact!"

"Laws are generalizations that describe phenomena, whereas theories explain phenomena. For example, the laws of thermodynamics describe what will happen under certain circumstances; thermodynamics theories explain why these events occur. Laws, like facts and theories, can change with better data. But theories do not develop into laws with the accumulation of evidence. Rather, theories are the goal of science."

Common descent is a historical fact, as is the fact that things evolve. How they evolve is the theory, and that's based in the facts we've gathered from science. Not that difficult to accept.


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Posts: 22 | Posted: 4:33 PM on January 12, 2005 | IP
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Actually gravity is a law of physics. But what do I know science is a sin
 


Posts: 32 | Posted: 04:05 AM on January 15, 2005 | IP
SJChaput

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as far as evolution it is impossible to prove that it definetly happened. But as far as the mos brilliant minds are concerned it DID... and we have bones to prove it

and again I say to you all, if we were created by god where do the dinosaurs fit in huh?
 


Posts: 32 | Posted: 04:06 AM on January 15, 2005 | IP
sketerpot

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Quote from SJChaput at 04:05 AM on January 15, 2005 :
Actually gravity is a law of physics. But what do I know science is a sin


"Gravity" can refer to several things. There's the observed phenomenon of attraction between massive objects. There are the laws of gravity, which are things like F = GmM/d^2, generalizations describing our observations of gravity. Or it can refer to a theory of gravity, which explains why we observe what we do regarding gravity.

This is what I was talking about when I said that the problem with the "just a theory" argument is a misunderstanding of scientific terminology.
 


Posts: 14 | Posted: 11:06 PM on January 15, 2005 | IP
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What everyone should remember is that science is currently a work in progress- even now, scientists are working to create theories on the machinery of quantam gravity. If there was for some reason an example that totally broke a law of physics, that law would have to be revised- only if it was proven to have been broken. However, these theories match all of the evidence as best as they possibly can- they are the most valid answers currently available.


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Posts: 8 | Posted: 11:19 AM on January 24, 2005 | IP
Lord Iorek

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How can anyone say that Evolution is unfit to be taught on the grounds that  it is purely "theory". Evolution has the most facts out of the two theories of our origin. If anything Creationism is purely assumption and has no real facts besides the few cracks in the evolutionary theory. In all my years, I have never seen a person give cold hard evidence that there is a creator. Besides, the separation of church and state prevents religious propaganda from being spread to the corruptable youth.

If any of you disagree with me, I'd like to debate you. However, I doubt I'd change your mind or that you'd provide comprehensable backing for you views.


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Posts: 121 | Posted: 5:57 PM on May 11, 2005 | IP
Box of Fox

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Tut, tut Iorek. You must know that a theory is not supported by facts, but by rational, empirical and usually non-interpretable evidence. Evidence is key. Not facts.

What are these facts that you speak of? ;) (And don't give me a list of facts. Because its probably evidence. Which are not facts. Whatever).

I'd also like to add that the evidence for Creationism is conceptual and interpretable, not empirical or observational. That is why scientists don't consider Creationism to have any weight-- if you can't play by the rules, don't talk. That is why Creationists have difficulty giving proof to their claims; conceptual and interpretable proof, such as the Bible, has too many variables and literal misconceptions it to be considered valid by the scientific method.

Personally, I feel that if a hypothesis cannot be supported by empirical or observational evidence, it should not be considered substantial food for thought.

And do not ask me which side I am on. This isn't a two-dimensional discussion. :-)

(Edited by Box of Fox 5/11/2005 at 6:37 PM).
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 6:35 PM on May 11, 2005 | IP
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Quote from billvandegiessen at 6:22 PM on July 22, 2003 :
    Is it right to teach a theory as scientific fact.  Even scientists admit evolution is only a theory.
Why, then, is it taught in our classrooms as factual history?  Even our beloved Discovery Channel has embraced this theory as fact.  Does anyone out there see a problem with this?


I see a problem with this. They should be teaching both evolution and intelligent design as theories and let student decide which theory makes the most sense.




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Posts: 68 | Posted: 12:07 PM on June 23, 2005 | IP
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First you have to know what a theory is. A theory is a:

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.


Do you know what is required before soemthing could be dubbed a theory? Scientific evidence as a result from scientific inquiry.

Intelligent Design, whether it be Behe's or be Raelians, are not scientific, and do not provide scientific evidence for their claims, and so therefore aren't theories.

Furthermore, a theory is used to explain and clarify. It has scientific evidence to back it up. Another example of a theory is Einstein's theory of relativity, or the theory of gravity. Gravity is a theory, not a fact. This is what creationists don't understand.
 


Posts: 39 | Posted: 2:52 PM on June 23, 2005 | IP
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Im curious where are all the species in between?


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Posts: 97 | Posted: 9:33 PM on June 23, 2005 | IP
Lord Iorek

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What? I wish I could answer your question, but I'm afraid I don't understand the question. Could you put it in context?


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Posts: 121 | Posted: 6:46 PM on June 24, 2005 | IP
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the links in between all the diffrent animals while they were evoloving.  


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Posts: 97 | Posted: 9:36 PM on June 24, 2005 | IP
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Skins, the answers you seek can be found simply by typing in your search engine "evolution of" and whatever animal you are interested in, us a horse for example and it will show you the evolutionary timescale for that species.
If that does not work there is tons of information at the public library or any museum of natural history.


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Posts: 41 | Posted: 07:38 AM on June 26, 2005 | IP
Army_of_Juan

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Quote from Raelian1 at 12:07 PM on June 23, 2005 :
Quote from billvandegiessen at 6:22 PM on July 22, 2003 :
    Is it right to teach a theory as scientific fact.  Even scientists admit evolution is only a theory.
Why, then, is it taught in our classrooms as factual history?  Even our beloved Discovery Channel has embraced this theory as fact.  Does anyone out there see a problem with this?


I see a problem with this. They should be teaching both evolution and intelligent design as theories and let student decide which theory makes the most sense.





Well ID is not a scientific theory and students aren't qualified to judge "what makes the most sense". Scientist who are already educated and work in the field know better than the students.


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Posts: 15 | Posted: 7:17 PM on December 26, 2005 | IP
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Evolution is a theory that has a lot of evidence against it. There should be no problem teaching Creation along with evolution. If evolution is right than it has nothing to fear from false Creationism. However if it is false than I could see not wanting other forms taught, in that case you are trying to hide the facts.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 8:42 PM on January 8, 2007 | IP
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Creation is not science.  It is history.


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Posts: 1287 | Posted: 06:47 AM on January 9, 2007 | IP
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True about the history part. However it makes more sense that I built a computer, than it does to say that the computer built its self all by its lonesome.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 5:14 PM on January 9, 2007 | IP
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True about the history part. However it makes more sense that I built a computer, than it does to say that the computer built its self all by its lonesome.


That's only because we actually make computers. ID's logic is circular. "We know this object has been created because a designer made it. We know a designer made it because these objects are created."


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 11:58 AM on January 10, 2007 | IP
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So if you never saw a computer before, you would think that it evolved of natural causes.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 3:07 PM on January 10, 2007 | IP
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Lets examine the logic here:

1. A computer is complex
2. A computer has an intelligent designer
3. Life is complex
4. Therefore, life also has an intelligent designer

The fact that two objects share one characteristic (complexity) does not imply they will share all characteristics.
Consider, for example, the following parallel argument:

1. Electric current in my house consists of a flow of electrons.
2. Electric current comes from the power company.
3. Lightning consist of a flow of electrons.
4. Therefore, lightning comes from the power company.

Quoted from The Language of God by Francis S. Collins
A good book, I recommend it


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Posts: 52 | Posted: 12:12 PM on February 17, 2007 | IP
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However as things progress they become deteriated. For instance, America has become more curupted as time progressed.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 12:33 PM on April 6, 2007 | IP
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Can you explain any better than that? Maybe some examples and dates.


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Posts: 52 | Posted: 1:13 PM on April 7, 2007 | IP
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Okay, in the 1700 God was in everything, from politics to the weather. Now he has been Remove from even schools.

When The public school system was first introduced there were two books, the bible and the dictionary.

Now we think that parrents aren't capable of teaching their kids about sex, drugs, and social skills.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 6:14 PM on April 10, 2007 | IP
Unriggable

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Quote from SilverStar at 8:42 PM on January 8, 2007 :
Evolution is a theory that has a lot of evidence against it. There should be no problem teaching Creation along with evolution. If evolution is right than it has nothing to fear from false Creationism. However if it is false than I could see not wanting other forms taught, in that case you are trying to hide the facts.


Against? You mean like this "lack of transition fossils" which doesn't exist?

Quote from rockclimber_10 at 12:12 PM on February 17, 2007 :
Lets examine the logic here:

1. A computer is complex
2. A computer has an intelligent designer
3. Life is complex
4. Therefore, life also has an intelligent designer


God is love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Ray Charles designed all life.

Quote from SilverStar at 12:33 PM on April 6, 2007 :
However as things progress they become deteriorated. For instance, America has become more curupted as time progressed.


I beg to differ, that's just because America is full of nutjobs like the KKK. Some countries become more orderly over time, like Germany and South Africa.

And besides you can't compare human creations to the animal world. There is enough evidence that evolution happens. Look at amoeba-bacteria symbiosis, where amoebae that got infected by bacteria are now dependent on them for survival; or nylon-eating bacteria, a bacteria that eats nylon (surprise surprise) even though nylon was invented less than 100 years ago.


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Posts: 51 | Posted: 6:07 PM on May 8, 2007 | IP
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I have only one question for the Evolution community, how can order come from random disorder?


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:41 PM on September 17, 2007 | IP
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To the person who said there is a "separation of Church and state"...

That is NOT in the Constitution, nor is it a law. The phrase "separation of Church and state" was used by Jefferson in a letter he wrote to the Danbury Connecticut Baptist Association. He used that phrase to assure the worried Baptists that the US would not recognize an official religion, such as "Church of the United States". However, there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits religion from being discussed or practiced in our schools.

Indeed, the constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

To state religion should be banned from schools is just another attempt by the anti-Christian left to silence conservative Americans while they promote their revisionist history and Socialist agenda.

(Edited by sstrang 9/25/2007 at 9:07 PM).
 


Posts: 12 | Posted: 9:05 PM on September 25, 2007 | IP
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The reason for taking God out of school is because of the posibily that some one may be affended by it. But what if i am affended by evolution?


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:20 PM on September 26, 2007 | IP
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Quote from SilverStar at 8:42 PM on January 8, 2007 :
Evolution is a theory that has a lot of evidence against it.


Really? In the last 150 years nobody has shown any evidence against evolution, do you know something the rest of the world doesn't?





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Posts: 15 | Posted: 4:46 PM on October 2, 2007 | IP
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Quote from SilverStar at 9:20 PM on September 26, 2007 :
The reason for taking God out of school is because of the posibily that some one may be affended by it. But what if i am affended by evolution?

If you are offended by science (biology in this case) then you are in desperate need of an education.

God is not in schools because you can't prove any gods exist so you can't teach anything about a god with any type of certainty.


(Edited by Army_of_Juan 10/2/2007 at 4:51 PM).


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Posts: 15 | Posted: 4:50 PM on October 2, 2007 | IP
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Quote from Army_of_Juan at 4:46 PM on October 2, 2007 :
Quote from SilverStar at 8:42 PM on January 8, 2007 :
Evolution is a theory that has a lot of evidence against it.


Really? In the last 150 years nobody has shown any evidence against evolution, do you know something the rest of the world doesn't?






So many things disspruve evolution that it is no longer anything nere fact.

It does not explain the lttle chainges that are of no use until fully developed.



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Posts: 681 | Posted: 5:47 PM on October 2, 2007 | IP
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It does not explain the lttle chainges that are of no use until fully developed.


No such thing. All changes influence a specie to one degree or another.


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 1:27 PM on October 3, 2007 | IP
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An example would be nurve cells. They surve no purpose. Until atlest half way developed, they would have to learn at least how to comunicate with other things, and would die off in the first generation.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 6:32 PM on October 3, 2007 | IP
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An example would be nurve cells. They surve no purpose. Until atlest half way developed, they would have to learn at least how to comunicate with other things, and would die off in the first generation.


Nerve cells aren't the only cells that communicate. Multicelluar organisms all have communication between their cells. Nerve cells are merely advanced forms of cell-to-cell communication.


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http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
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Posts: 729 | Posted: 4:44 PM on October 4, 2007 | IP
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How it would surve no purpose to have one advanced comunication cell. they would have to develop within one generation.

Also every time something is mutated by nature it is bad, like cancer.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 8:08 PM on October 5, 2007 | IP
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How it would surve no purpose to have one advanced comunication cell. they would have to develop within one generation.


How would it serve no purpose? You're getting it backwards. It does serve a purpose to have advanced communication abilities. You don't stop getting it wrong with the idea that advanced communication cells came about individually, either.


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 03:45 AM on October 8, 2007 | IP
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One nurve cell is useless, it's like having one borg.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 8:45 PM on October 8, 2007 | IP
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One nurve cell is useless, it's like having one borg.


As I've pointed out already, nerve (sic) cells didn't evolve individually.


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http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
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Posts: 729 | Posted: 4:34 PM on October 9, 2007 | IP
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So how would nerve cells spontaneously evolve and how would they connect?


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:06 PM on October 9, 2007 | IP
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So how would nerve cells spontaneously evolve and how would they connect?


You've been told multiple times that nerve cells did not spontaneously evolve. They're simply improvements of ordinary cells. The steps are simply a series of changes that cause better organization of the cells and faster exchanges of chemicals between them.


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http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
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Posts: 729 | Posted: 12:44 AM on October 10, 2007 | IP
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And I have said that more than one would have to evolve at the same time in order to be affective.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 5:36 PM on October 10, 2007 | IP
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And I have said that more than one would have to evolve at the same time in order to be affective.


Wow. Here's for the third time:

They didn't evolve one at a time!


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Posts: 729 | Posted: 4:11 PM on October 11, 2007 | IP
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Than how did all of the intricate devices of nerve cells develop? and how would most animals have advance nerves systems that work in the same way? How would the same possesses that made them happen over and over again.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 4:48 PM on October 11, 2007 | IP
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Than how did all of the intricate devices of nerve cells develop? and how would most animals have advance nerves systems that work in the same way? How would the same possesses that made them happen over and over again.


Your question basically comes down to, "Why would something useful be found in so many animals?"

It's hard to overlook "Duh" as a valid response.


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http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 4:55 PM on October 11, 2007 | IP
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No, it is how can the long odds of something that works in one way be coppie so many times wih the kind of odd aganst it?


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 5:32 PM on October 11, 2007 | IP
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Nerve cells didn't develop many different times. They underwent initial development in animals, and those animals with advanced nervous systems spawned the rest of the animals that today have much more complicated nervous systems.


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 6:07 PM on October 12, 2007 | IP
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How then do so many unrelated speicies have it?


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Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 6:24 PM on October 12, 2007 | IP
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How then do so many unrelated speicies have it?


They have advanced nervous systems because they are related. Advanced nervous systems were first found in worms.


-------
http://ummcash.org/officers.html
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/wow_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/08/a_triumphant_beginning.php
We're official!
 


Posts: 729 | Posted: 7:45 PM on October 13, 2007 | IP
    
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