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     The Pledge
       Should students be forced to hear the pledge every day?

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zachvac

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We are forced to go to a school from 1st grade until we're 18. If we have enough money we may get into a private school. Other than that we are virtually forced to go to a public school. I'm pretty sure all schools are like this but in my school before morning anouncements they say, "please stand for the pledge" and say it. We aren't forced to stand but I know in some schools they are. I have 2 major problems with that.

1. "Under god"
This most definately violates the seperation of church and state clause but even if there is a god, we, as a nation ("one nation under god") are not under god. We are under a senate, house of representatives, president, and many other elected officials. Nowhere in the constitution does it mention anything about god. George Bush said something about that this didn't say there was a god but just acknowledged the faith we have in a supreme being. I challenge anyone to show me where claiming we are "under god" doesn't mean that god exists.

2. PUBLIC schools
We are forced to go to school from 1st grade until age 18. We have no choice unless we go to a public school or are homeschooled. We deserve the right of a free an public education. The reason we are forced to go to school is to learn and be ready to be active and contributing members to society when we are older. We are not here to praise this mighty country we live in. There is plenty of time during lunch to organize a PRIVATE meeting in which the pledge is said or even at the beginning or end of the day. This interferes with the learning environment. We are forced to go because we need to be educated, we are not here to here people praise this country. Do it all you want in PRIVATE schools, but let public schools dedicate their time to providing an education.
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 11:18 PM on July 11, 2004 | IP
monkeymule

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I agree...I went to a public school for 2 years and they made you stand up and say the pledge...im not christian nor am i atheist...i am judadiadism which is a religion my brother made up where you can't prove that there is a god and you can't prove that there isn't so you are floating in between.  

Also look at the dollar bill...it clearly states "In God We Trust" on it...is this country being forced upon christianity? according to the first ammendment we have freedom of religion and here it seems that a religion is being pushed down on us and how are we going to stop it?


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"It's impossible to make anything fool proof because fools are so ingenious" ~Anonymous
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 11:43 AM on November 18, 2004 | IP
deep thought

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this nation was founded by christian morals. its not the nation moveing to christian morals its the nation falling away from them.

dont whine about having to salute our nation,  if you hate it so much then im shure there are other people who would be glad to trade places with a rich american who dosent understand the worth of the freedoms that he has.

oh, by the way, try reading the constitution you will find this early on so you wont have to be offended by the attrocities that the document holds.  your "sepperation of church and state" is really just saying that congress, not the rest of the regular people, cant make decisions that affect religon.  the first ammendment dosent protect you from religon it protects religon from you.

you people discust me, you dont agree with a part of our pledge so you dissrespect the whole nation just to show it.


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though we delve in the river of Knowledge, our flasks often come up dry.
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 12:19 AM on April 29, 2005 | IP
Peter87

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read the dats of posts...
Well done to the guys that posted a year ago, if it involves a religion you disagree then disagree with it all. A pledge is the most stupid idea, it is another example of how much crap your gouvernment forces down your neck to make you patriotic, which breeds hatred for others. You cannot force athiests (or agnostics) to say "under god" it is like forceing christians to say "away from god" or a pledge saying you worship this country and disragard all supreme beings.


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Why should we bow to the will of anyone? Especialy a man who our country but another voted for?
 


Posts: 301 | Posted: 8:43 PM on April 29, 2005 | IP
Carns

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while  i see the point of not including such statements for the reasons given, like mentioned, you do have to realize that christianity and the morals therein were a large part of your countries past and therefore it's good to know what they are. if you want to live in a country who'll really let you be free, come to Canada, we'll let you smoke dope and call it a religion.

now, while this promotes patriotism to be sure, one can't be forced to be patriotic, nor can you blame patriotism for hatred... thats a blatant stereotype with no grounds. There are "patriots" of sorts that have hatred and breed it, but i consider myself patriotic, and i dont hate anybody... if somebody wants to become hateful in the name of their country or god or whatever, then thats their choice, not anybody else's.. patriotism does not in any way breed hatred. its like saying because i'm deeply committed to my wife, if i tell her that every day, i'll start to hate all other women... its absolutely untrue. it demonstrates a bias, a favoratism, admittedly; but not hatred...

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. If your country added words in only 1954 it's obviously subject to influence by campaign, so i suggest you invoke your right to campaign and see how many credible supporters you have, perhaps you'll be able to get it removed, after all, it's only been in there for the past 50 years or so







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Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:23 PM on April 30, 2005 | IP
Carns

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let me add that the pledge was written in 1892, and like i mentioned was amended and edited. in fact, In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored. Francis Bellamy was the guy who wrote it, and they didn't "care" that he wasn't fond of the idea because it was just him and not a majority...


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Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:28 PM on April 30, 2005 | IP
Carns

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I just found out that Bush reaffirmed the "under god" ammendment in 2002 and also reaffirmed the motto "in god we trust" at the same time, it was voted in unanimously in the senate.

good luck with that campaign




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Inherent Freedom For All
 


Posts: 95 | Posted: 10:34 PM on April 30, 2005 | IP
Raelian1

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The pledge should be removed from all public schools. It's unconstitutional. They might as well force students to have morning and afternoon prayers. The pledge reinforces patriotism and patriotism is a bad thing. The US military (the most dangerous cult ever) uses the pledge to recruit and brainwash people especially naive people who just graduated from high school.


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Posts: 68 | Posted: 11:50 PM on June 21, 2005 | IP
ArmyofGod

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First of its two words and the word 'god is a pronoun, to some god is buddha, to some its alla and some its christ.  the word 'god refers to devine power, and if atheist could represent the devine power of our country.  It is not a prayer, you aren't forced to stand for the pledge or even repeat it.  If you are then get the attention of the school districts.  The school does not have the rights to force anyone to do anything, But I ask you to respect the beliefs of others.  Our four fathers believed in god or a devine power.  Many choose to today.  If you write down the pledge the principle behind it is to honor your county.  If you attack the pledge, to me you attack what our country stands for.  Dishonoring our country is not the step I think we should take.  If you choose not to repeat it at least don't whine about it while its going on.  Show some respect.


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Anthony Palmer
 


Posts: 4 | Posted: 10:55 AM on October 18, 2005 | IP
sstrang

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I am disgusted with the anti-Americanism being spewed in this thread. If you do not wish to honor the soldiers that died for this country, and if you do not want to Pledge Allegiance to the freest, most equal, greatest country in the world, then move the hell out!

1) There is no such thing as "Separation of Church and State". That phrase was used by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Connecticut Baptist Association, assuring them that the United States would not adopt an official, national religion. The first amendment guarantees citizens freedom OF religion, not FROM religion.

2). The United States of America was founded by Christians, and our founding documents were significantly influenced by verses in the Bible. Indeed, if you read the letters written by our founding fathers, and examine our nation's original documents, you will discover that not only were our Founding Fathers openly Christian, but they even promoted the teaching of Christian values in both the home AND the school. This great country is a Christian nation. You do not have to be Christian, and are indeed encouraged to practice your religion freely. However, if you wish to live in this country, you must acknowledge the laws and culture of this country, and respect said laws and culture.

3) Our military is not an evil cult, as another member stated. How exactly is the US military a "cult"? We ended Nazism, Stalin's regime, overthrew terrorist regimes in Afghanistan, and have given more aide to people in need than any other country on the face of this earth. America represents freedom, morality, justice, and virtue. That is why people from all around the world flock to the United States to flee their Fascist, Communist, tyrannical leaders and governments. If America was such a horrible, oppressive nation, then the millions of immigrants who flee their homeland to come to America wouldn't be waiting in line to come to America. Claiming our military is evil and that our government perpetuates bigotry is both a lie and treason!

Anyone who speaks of America as though it's a vile, evil force should be ashamed of themselves, and I denounce you for what you are: a lowlife scumbag that doesn't deserve to reap the benefits and freedoms that our brave soldiers have given you, through the sacrificing of their lives.
 


Posts: 12 | Posted: 9:23 PM on September 25, 2007 | IP
SilverStar

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For all of you "seperation of church and state" Please find it. I have looked and haven't found it.


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Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:11 PM on September 26, 2007 | IP
    
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