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Would School Vouchers improve American education ? 

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/vouchers.HTM
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 7:19 PM on April 30, 2002 | IP
Jigokusabre

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The public schools in America are understaffed, and under funded. Teachers are underpaid, and schools are in disrepear. The schools are failing (or so it is contended.) and the solution to this is... to gut the funding, and give it to the private religionous schools, who can accept students on whatever criteria they want? How is this an improvement?

Giving public money to schools who already have sufficent funding will serve only to widen the social gap that is so debilitating in our society.


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Posts: 30 | Posted: 10:21 PM on August 19, 2002 | IP
Day_Am_STR8

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I think it off balances the economical gap in society.

The thing to remember is that ANY society has to have a gap.

Many of the problems we are facing today are due to the alleviation of social gaps.

When trying to reduce social gap - you end up wiping out middle class and reducing this class to a more impoverished life style.

Also you are enabling  big business to grow farther away from average America.

Besides that - no matter how hard you try to fix poverty - someone will always be on the bottom of the economic scale!

So, why hurt those who display some amibition to do better by reducing their playing field for the sake of attempting to help those who actually have most of the SAME opportunities as the rest of the country?
It seems to me that what is really needed here is a way to recreate and revitalize AMBITION.

Keep handing it out and it will always be taken (for granted)!

This actually stems back to the minimum wage issue.

If the people on the bottom are happy where they are - why try to do for them ?
It seems only logical to me that the right thing is to find an incentive for business to reward those who are willing to try more.

That would make some people WANT to be BETTER!

Since when is BETTER not Better?

Back to the subject regarding vouchers

It looks to me like those who want to do better for their kids are loosing an area to help prevent their childrens exposure to that type of GIMME HANDOUTS thinking that motivationally lacking people would benefit from this.

There are many reasons why those people are in their own mess.

Look at what is REALLY different between them and people who try to climb a socio-economic ladder.

There is one thing - they do not try to fit in to the positive growth pattern!

Why would it be better to try helping non trying people?


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Pro 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 6:17 PM on August 27, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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What? Discounting your non-topical rant at the top, where to you get some of the ideas you are spouting out? While I agree that the handout mentality is a problem, since when is public schooling considered a handout program? The fact is evident that poorer school districts have worse schools than richer school districts. This has nothing to do with "laziness" of the adults in the community. All it results from is an inequality of funding due to the over-representation of property taxes in doleing out school funding (property taxes overwhelmingly generating revenue to richer areas). Even granting your suggestion that these adults are lazy, which I think is ridiculous, the kids don't even have the option to be lazy or not, because their school isn't prepared to give them the necessary skills they need to succeed even if they DO work hard. So to link this back to the actual debate, I refer you to Jigokusabre's analysis, which pointed out how taking AWAY money from school systems which already are failing will make the problem worse, not better. I'm going to resist the temptation to argue with u about the poors non-inclination to get richer, as it is non-topical, but feel free to post it in the appropriate forum and let some real debate get on!


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 9:28 PM on August 27, 2002 | IP
Day_Am_STR8

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vouchers are not about PUBLIC  schools - they are about putting trash in with decent people.


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Pro 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
 


Posts: 20 | Posted: 10:08 PM on September 7, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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oh really? who exactly is "trash?" I could have sworn this country didn't judge based on birth, but rather on achievments. Perhaps we should create some aristocracy to keep the "trash" out of power altoghether, eh?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:54 PM on September 7, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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If you have the money, why would you not send your kids to the best school?  Which in most cases is the private school.  I agree that public schools should all be on the same level and it is said that some are so high up and some so run down.

It will be a great day when schools have all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:41 AM on September 8, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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exactly! But the govts. job isn't to make everybody rich enough to send their kids to private school, its job is to make sure that the people who arent rich enough to send their kids to private schools still have the same oppurtunities as the uber-rich among us.

Btw, love the bake sale idea!


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 11:05 AM on September 8, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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In theory you make a good point, but the world turns on money and that will never ever change.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 7:02 PM on September 8, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Probably not, but the government damn well do what it can. (good old fashioned Keynesian Economics! Love it!). We should at least TRY to help out, rather than throw up our hands and say, "yeah we'd love to keep you from dying, but, that would take, like, hard work you know?"


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:47 PM on September 8, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Like I said, all in theory, but in reality it would never work.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:21 AM on September 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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It could work. We don't know. We haven't tried. Life for poorer Americans certainly has improved dramitcally since we GAVE them the option of attending school, before there were public schools they couldn't educate their kids even if they wanted too. Who knows what we could do if we kept working to make those public school strongers?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:47 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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tsmith2771...ur ideas i believe r balanced on wat people tell u and u dont check references... if we didnt have many there would be no need to steal... there would be no need because we would be content and not have rich or poor... but that would only work if we did not have bartering as well
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 7:04 PM on September 10, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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School vouchers are a good idea.  Kids need school, otherwise, they more likely become stoopid.  However, i believe the best solution is communism, or at least socialism.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 3:16 PM on September 24, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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I used to be a communist. then I took a History class. So now I'm a moderate democratic socialist.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 5:48 PM on September 24, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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communism rocks!


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 5:50 PM on September 24, 2002 | IP
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How is government financial aid for private colleges, including religious ones, okay and vouchers for private schools, including religous ones, not okay?  The money is being used for education not supporting religion.  If someone homeless man used food stamps to buy some canned food from a religious mission, hes fulfilling the purpose of the food stamps, to get food.  It doesn't matter that its a religious place he buys from.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:00 AM on September 25, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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But in a communism, everything is free, therefore we wouldn't have to have people getting such small amounts of money!


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 08:39 AM on September 25, 2002 | IP
rae

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The problem with school vouchers is that it doesn't fix the problem.  The problem is that public schools are underfunded and neglected.  There would be no need for vouchers if public schools got legidimate support.  Essetially vouchers just ignore the real problem.  
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 8:30 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Quote from Day_Am_STR8 at 10:08 PM on September 7, 2002 :
vouchers are not about PUBLIC  schools - they are about putting trash in with decent people.


Holy crap you're a hardcore rightwinger. Please, let go of the gun, the poor black lesbian atheists aren't coming to take your freedom.


 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 3:36 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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Quote from tsmith2771 at 03:41 AM on September 8, 2002 :
It will be a great day when schools have all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.


I have this bumper sticker on my dorm room door as well as-
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will shoot their children accidentally.

As for vouchers, it is quite similar to taking the pennies away from a bum to inspire him to work harder.

 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 3:39 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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hey exxoss, i hope you know that communism does not allow for freedom of speech. for anyone out there who believes in both the equal distribution of income and freedom, then become a socialist.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:39 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
Inu-Yasha-Girl

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I really don't know.... They might be unfair for advantaged kids to get them, but not unfair for disadvantaged kids. I've seen the advantaged kids get them, and not the disadvantaged kids.


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Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? :p
 


Posts: 53 | Posted: 09:06 AM on May 15, 2003 | IP
    
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