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Should states have the power to veto federal policies? 

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/states_rights.HTM

(Edited by admin 10/8/2002 at 6:48 PM).
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 11:41 AM on May 1, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Since 1865 the states have had no rights.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:15 AM on September 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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God forbid they have to respect the constitution. What the "state's rights" partisans forget is that the US is NOT a confederal system (ala the articles of confederation), but a federalist system, and in areas where federal and state powers conflict (which is nearly everything these days), federal power is supreme (McCulluch v. Maryland)


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:49 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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States did have rights before something happened, anyone know what it was?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 5:19 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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ooh ooh i know! that lost their rights after we realized that the Articles of Confederation were retarded, and passed the Constitution!


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 5:24 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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So in one post you agree that the civil war was fought over states rights but now they never had any?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 7:35 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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The constitution limited state's rights pretty much to leftovers, what ever wasnt federal domain. The civil war was fought over the state's supposed "right" to own slaves, a right which never existed.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:17 PM on September 9, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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exactlly! and who do u think caused all this non-sense??? we did!!! just goes to show democracy sux
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 10:51 PM on September 13, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Democracy as apposed to what?  A monarchy, a communism, what do you suggest.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 04:34 AM on September 14, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Democracy sux. Everything else sux more. Which does present us with a problem....


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:30 AM on September 14, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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the best government is monarchy...only where if he screws up the people replace him for as long as it takes to fix his mistake...and then give the power to some1 else... who is more qualified...
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 9:22 PM on September 15, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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And this is why you scare me Xenjael. How rare is it that the monarch is actually qualified? Especially considering it takes two very different skill sets to become the monarch and be a good monarch.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:14 PM on September 16, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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lol u remember our little chat dont u??? ur statement is true... how does one prove one is worthy of ruling?
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 8:37 PM on September 17, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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the same way julius caesar did, by not seeking it when the oppurtunity presents itself, and not accepting it when it is offered to you on a platter.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:13 PM on September 17, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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lol... this is true i suppose to bad it is still an effective way.... else we ahem wouldnt use it
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 5:32 PM on September 19, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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not only does this make it more likely u will be chosen to rule, but it also proves your worthiness to do so.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 6:34 PM on September 19, 2002 | IP
Xenjael

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i knew ud get the hints dsadevil
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 9:48 PM on September 21, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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WE are slaves to the machine, and have no power.  Let them veto so we can have a say!(or at least our representatives)  There is no power for the peoplle, only the pres and his cabinet.  Empty the cabinet and revert to communism!


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 10:24 AM on September 25, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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no form of govt is perfect.  all are quite far from it.  since we have no perfect govt i think that democracy will have to substitute.  in communist govts and monarchies one person is given supreme power.  people are corrupted by the ability to do whatever they choose.  since humans are naturally selfish, the dictator or monarch will, most times, look to themselves first and forget the people.  at least in a democracy the nation's leader is not untouchable


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 10:40 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I just finished a book on the weakness of our democratic government.  Although not as easily corrupted as Communism or whatever, or government is, according to this book, ruled by a very few elite few.  There is a group called the Council of Foreign Relations that started in the early 20's with intention of creating first a national bank, then later a world bank that would be achieved through globalism.  They suceeded in the national bank but it was abolished soon after.  Since 1940 all but 5 presidents come from this group.  And it is estimated that up to 80% of current senators and congressman belong to the group.  Their meetnigs are private, and no one but members have ever been to one.
This group is responsible for the Vietnam, supposedly.  War is a huge source of income, so they fueled the conflict by selling arms and giving loans to both sides.  Then they used the stock market as a ransom to persuade Kennedy to send troops in.  The big contraversy is that the CFR had Kennedy assasinated for not bending to their will.  This theory is backed by several memos and documents sent between the CFR and the CIA that many believe the assasination of Kennedy was codenamed the Bay of Pigs.  SIx members, by themselves have the ability to collapse the stock market without any loss to themselves, but with your members compromising 80% of the law making body why would they ever need to go to such a extreme.  To be honest I only have the basics of the thing down, but it is a really interesting book, and it's all documented and backed by several dozen congressman and two former presidents.  And conspiracy theories are just plain fun.  Maybe some of you guys know more about this than I do.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:06 PM on October 13, 2002 | IP
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i would nt be the least bit suprised to find out that that is true...did you know that every president since George Washington has belonged to the secret society of the Masonic Lodge...they are all masons.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:42 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
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The 10th amendment states:  "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

A look at the history of this amendment reveals that the writers did not want it to be a severe brake on federal powers.  This can be shown by the refusal of both Houses of Congress to insert the word "expressly" before the word "delegated".  It turns out the 10th amendment is a historical curiosity, stripped of its teeth by the politics of the time.  When the anti-federalists proposed the amendment, they intended it to be a strong limitation to federal powers.  But they failed; the federalists managed to pass a wording that left implied federal powers intact, as well as undefined powers "to the people".  Most constitutional scholars and the Supreme Court rulings have regarded the 10th amendment as an unsuccessful attempt  to put limitations to federal powers.


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"There are seven sins in the world: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, and politics without principle." --Mahatma Gandhi
 


Posts: 22 | Posted: 04:25 AM on November 2, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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One that failed mostly due to the addition of the necessary and proper clause to article 1 section 8 of the constitution


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:50 PM on November 3, 2002 | IP
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Aren't we a republic? (please excuse this post, I am REALLY REALLY HYPER!!!)


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 8:27 PM on January 3, 2003 | IP
Patriotandproudofit

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debategirl,

I agree with you here. We are a Republic, as much as the media and politicians would like us to be a Democracy we are not. Until Art. 4, Sec. 4 is repealed or overridden we are a Republic. Just to define the phrases:

Democracy: The people make the laws.

Republic: The people elect the people that make the laws.


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Are you a man of the times, or a man for the times?
 


Posts: 51 | Posted: 01:13 AM on January 4, 2003 | IP
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Well, to be as brief as possible, the Union was founded by the States acting as principals; the Constitutional Convention was formed of State delegations. The States, therefore, delegated certain powers to the central Government. All other powers are retained by the States, and some States (one being Virginia) even reserved the right to re-assume those powers at a future time when they considered the central Government to have become tyrannical.


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The Union. Next to our liberty, most dear. <br><br>-John C. Calhoun, 1832
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 1:12 PM on June 4, 2003 | IP
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THE BEST FORM OF GOVERNMENT IS THE SUPREME COURT:  Depending on the Judges!


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(ZAN-TI-MOW)
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 10:48 AM on January 29, 2004 | IP
    
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