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Should Flag Burning be against the law ? 

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/FLAG_BURNING.HTM

(Edited by admin 10/8/2002 at 6:48 PM).
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 11:43 AM on May 1, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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No, it is merely an excersize of our right of free speach.  If the flag's yours, go ahead, pyro!


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 4:23 PM on September 24, 2002 | IP
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Based on the fundamentals of our country, yes.

But if we didn't have those little things in our way, no, it destroys patriotism, an important thing keeping countries together.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:50 PM on September 26, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Patriotism does not keep countries together!  It is the vast amount of weapons we have that scare other countries!  Perhaps it doesnt scare terrorists, but then again, they kill themselves for bomings.  Patriotism is merely a word.  Patriotism is also what made the terrorists attack.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 08:56 AM on September 27, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Exxoss, I have heard some stupid things in my life but what you just said takes the taco.  You really think the reason terrorists attack us was because of patriotism.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 5:28 PM on October 8, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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it wasn't b/c we are patriotic (even if im not), it's because we support democracy in the land of tyrants.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 12:05 AM on October 9, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Thank you.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 3:30 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
Sakata

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Quote from tsmith2771 at 5:28 PM on October 8, 2002 :
Exxoss, I have heard some stupid things in my life but what you just said takes the taco.  You really think the reason terrorists attack us was because of patriotism.



LOL




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No time for mediocrity.

People call me a Bible-Thumping reactionist ...and I'm proud to bear the name.
 


Posts: 293 | Posted: 7:57 PM on October 9, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I appreciate what comes along with being an American, but to be frank, I'm so sick of the word American I could vomit.  What makes us as Americans such an elite bunch?  September 11 was horrible, but how much TV coverage and how many memorials to the people starving in Africa get.  None.  Apparently since their not "American,"  their lives aren't as important.  2500 people died on 9/11, several times that many die everyday, slow deaths, and we don't care.  I've kinda rambled, but the point is that peice of fabric wouldn't be so important if we would stop considering ourselves American, and start being people.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 4:11 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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I disagree. you are selling the term, "American" short. I think being an American has a lot of a value, and not because I value the lives of Africans less, but rather because I do. Yes, many Americans don't give a crap about other people, but I think that is
"un-American". The value of being "American" is not in what we are, but in what we can become. There are very few countries in my opinion that are set up politically in a way in which they can constantly improve. That is the point of the Constitution, that is the point of being American. There are many things I find disgusting going on in America (I am gay, and I feel like a second-class citizen, and I also think blacks, hispanics and many other minorities are stomped on, and our foreign policy is often too self-interested), but none of those things make me ashamed to be "American", because I feel confident that in our country ALL those things will eventually improve. It is the way of democracy. As for flag-burning, I think it is silly and is only used for shock value nowadays (and is kind of an unsophisticated method of expressing criticism), but I definitely think it should be a right. Sometimes I think people mistake patriotism with dedication to the preservation of THEIR values. Patriotism, at least in America, should be dedication to the shared values of freedom and fraternity. I would like to end with one comment about patriotism. recently, many democrats have kept their mouths shut (and voted yes for a resolution on Iraq), saying it was out of patriotism. That is twisted. If you let the government steam roll your values, that is anti-patriotism, because you are limiting the nation's capacity for sefl-improvement. John Stuart Mill said, "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." he hit the nail on the head. In America, the greatest threat is a "tyranny of the majority". Never shut your mouth, not when there is the slightest chance that what you say may change our lives for the better. That's being "American".


-------
Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 02:53 AM on October 19, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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That Mill quote is one my favorites, one the most brilliant things ever said.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 1:40 PM on October 19, 2002 | IP
locagirl

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rock on alexanderthegreat! lots of good points.

flag burning should be allowed.  it is our right to burn our flag.  it is a free country
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 3:39 PM on November 8, 2002 | IP
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I agree with most of what Alex said.  

the flag is a piece of cloth, thats it.  if people want to get all ticked about burning the flag, what about all these idiots that run around with flags on their cars?  most of the flags on cars are there because it was the "cool" thing to do, not because they actually care all that much.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 08:39 AM on November 14, 2002 | IP
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The flag is not the issue here.  The issue at stake is freedom.  The flag is the symbol, not the actual thing!  If we, as Americans, allow the government to take away our freedom, any freedom, then we are just asking to become like the other countries...the ones where women can't leave their homes without a male escort, where there are no elections, etc.  We would be allowing the government to rule over us, instead of us ruling over the government.  We cannot afford to lose our freedoms.  And we cannot afford to think of the flag as our freedom.  If the government passes legislation banning flag burning, then it is passing legislation against the freedoms that our flag symbolizes.  I don't encourage flag burning, but I would gladly burn one to show that I do have freedom.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:41 PM on November 20, 2002 | IP
beavischrist

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I believe exxoss was speaking of the terrorists patriotic feelings towards their land. He is correct.
 


Posts: 193 | Posted: 1:52 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
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Flag-burning, in my opinion, is no better than TREASON.

This is America: Either show you love for it, or get the HELL out of here, man!

LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 8:37 PM on December 7, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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your right, this is american, which gives the right to burn the flag.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 9:50 PM on December 7, 2002 | IP
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speech is protected under the first amendment, and actions, as in burning a flag is a form of speech.  so burning the flag is a protected right, no matter how many people dont like it.

the first amendment is designed to protect unpopular speech.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 10:58 PM on December 7, 2002 | IP
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"Love it or leave it"

That is one of the most idiotic statements ever made by people.  People can love their country and still see things that are wrong and need to be changed.  Mark Twain said it best:   "Our Country, right or wrong...Have you not perceived that phrase is an insult to the nation."
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:16 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
meditate

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i don't think flag burning should be banned. What is the purpose of banning ? What kind of punishment for this offense would be "fair" ? Flag burning is a protected right, just like everyone else is saying. I have bought flags, OUR FLAGS, made in other countries. So how much pride should we put in THOSE flags ? Should we think any differently of them Because they were made in a foreign third world country where people are starving and Our Government isn't helping ? I'm rambling, i'll shut up now.


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Meditate
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 2:17 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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I'm just saying that if you hate America that much, then you should find somewhere else to go.

If people want to burn American flags in private, that's their business.  But out in the middle of an open, busy street....?

Those are the kind of things that start riots!
Which is against the law, by the way.

Hell, everyone knows, including me, that there are things wrong with our country.  But I still love it because it's the greatest nation in the world.  I guess you could say I love it Unconditionally!

Others should do the same.

LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 11:49 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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just because you burn the flag doesnt mean you hate america.  burning the flag is a extreme statement that you dislike some aspect of the way the government is run.

i love this country too, but ill be damned to follow our leaders blindly.  there is alot of shady stuff that goes on behind closed doors and i believe that burning the flag is a way to show you wont accept that.  i am not saying it is the right way, or the most effective way, but it deffinately gets attention.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 12:02 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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Well at least we agree that (at least I think we do) only people who are immature and obvisously have some kind of psychological problem burn American flags.

Burning flags is what OTHER countries do...countries where people have no opportunities, where their governments are tyrannical, where the people have no say...

People should be thankful, and proud, for the price that millions of soldiers paid, so that we could live in such a country as great as America.


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 5:37 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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so maynard, just because u think that america should be loved means we should mandate that under law? let's say i live in and dislike america as it is now. i have two options, work to change it from within, via lobbying or protest (which IS legal), or just leave. which option shows love? work or abandonment?


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 7:13 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from dsadevil at 7:13 PM on December 9, 2002 :
so maynard, just because u think that america should be loved means we should mandate that under law? let's say i live in and dislike america as it is now. i have two options, work to change it from within, via lobbying or protest (which IS legal), or just leave. which option shows love? work or abandonment?



im not to sure what you are saying, but you are right, two things, work to make it better, or leave.  i dont like the hypocritical people that say they hate america, but hang around for the benefits.  but i dont believe that the government is working soley for the peoples best interest.  

i beleive protest is a wonderful thing to show that you do not agree with what  is going on.  one person can make a difference.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 9:59 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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great. flag burning is a method of protest. why is it worse than any other method? It seems to get your attention, so it must be at least somewhat effective.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 11:45 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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I still have to argue that Flag Burning is no better than treason.

Treason: betrayal of trust or faith; violation of the allegiance owed to one's state; betrayal of on'e country

U.S. Constitution: Treason-consisting only in levying war against the U.S. or giving aid to its enemies.

I think by burning a flag you are, in a sense, declaring war on the U.S....and the offender should be treated as such...

Tell me, what would it hurt to force people to respect the Flag?
There are plenty of other ways to express your dislike of our government, but burning the very symbol of our country, out in the open street where everyone can see, to me that's declaring war....


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 12:58 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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levying war against the us? hahaha


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:23 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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I really don't have a problem with flag burning but it does kind of catch me off gaurd.  What is the universal symbol of the united states?  The american flag.  So therefore burning that is somewhat anti-american.  Morally I think it is wrong but legally I think its allowed.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 05:53 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
meditate

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I think pledging alliegence to a flag is no better than idolatry. The Flag is the idol and Most Americans are worshippers. God would not be pleased. In the words of Dennis Miller : "Thats my opinion, i could be wrong"


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Meditate
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 12:03 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from hooyah at 12:58 AM on December 10, 2002 :
I still have to argue that Flag Burning is no better than treason.

Treason: betrayal of trust or faith; violation of the allegiance owed to one's state; betrayal of on'e country

U.S. Constitution: Treason-consisting only in levying war against the U.S. or giving aid to its enemies.

I think by burning a flag you are, in a sense, declaring war on the U.S....and the offender should be treated as such...

Tell me, what would it hurt to force people to respect the Flag?
There are plenty of other ways to express your dislike of our government, but burning the very symbol of our country, out in the open street where everyone can see, to me that's declaring war....


you cannot force respect, and i personally am very thankful for the vets that fought for this country, and i respect them, not the flag.  



-------
I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 3:02 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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Falling, I don't see what's so funny about WAR!

Maybe it would be unconstitutional to ban flag-burning, BUT...

What if, when someone burned a flag (in public), the police would have to take them into custody and hold them for a minimum of say 1 month, for "investigative purposes" in order to find out what the person was trying to say by burning the flag:
Were you burning the flag to declare war?
Are you a terrorist? (could be easily justified)
Were you trying to start a riot?

Again, they wouldn't be under arrest per se, but just being 'detained' until the situation was investigated, all in the name of National Security, and protection of the innocent.

I think there are enough people that believe that flag burning is wrong (not necessarily illegal) to pass such a bill through Congress.

Not to punish; but to deter.


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 10:14 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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So in otherwords, you are willing to use sneaky tricks to make an endrun around constitutionally protected actions? that speaks well of you. And, for the record, such action would be unconstitutional under the 4th amendment. There is no probable cause for detention.


-------
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 10:38 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i was laughing at your comment that burning the flag is declaring war on the US. thats ridiculous!


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 10:39 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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It wouldn't be a "trick."
The person would be detained while being investigated.
For all we know, he could be a terrorist; rallying people to overturn the government
"ANARCHY!"
We have to be sure!


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 12:49 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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unfortunatly hooyah, you are going to get your way, eventually the amendment to make burning the flag is going to pass, thanks to people like the wonderful senator of utah, orin hatch,(sarcasm intended) who claims they will not stop until it is passed.  but i am going to my part to stop that.  

and you say that people should be "detained" to be until their motive for burning the flag was found out, i think if someone is burning the flag their motive is pretty obvious, they are protesting the government.




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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 09:22 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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For all we know you could be a facist wanting to turn the country into a dictatorship. Government detentions have to be based on affirmative knowledge, not the lack of it. Otherwise this entire country "might" be evil terrorists trying to destroy the world.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 2:02 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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Like you said, Maynard, eventually that bill will be passed.  There are more than enough people in this country who think that it's wrong to burn the symbol of our Nation to outlaw such anarchic behavior.

I think if you really search yourselves, you'd agree that it is wrong to burn the flag.  There are plenty of MATURE ways to show your protest (vote for God's sake.) I"d be suprised at how many of these people, who burn flags, actually vote.

Dsa, the "detention" would be based on the fact the there is a lunatic in the middle of the street waving an American Flag that is on fire!  You just don't do that kind of $%#!  Not just the flag, but, hell, anyone in the middle of the street burning ANY object would be considered insane!

Find some other way to protest, people!

Are we CAVEMEN?


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 11:41 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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why would burning the flag be bad? i mean, why we retire a flag just to let it burn? we should stick it in a museum, or put it out on display, or use it during a presidential speech, i mean a flag can't really retire if its only purpose for being established is show the symbol of america, let the schools have it.
-i am xenjael
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 05:42 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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The problem with people like hooyah is that he is too stupid to understand that  it may be him who is held for investigation.  Many of the posts of his I've read would qualify him as a potential terrorist as far as I am concerned.  So, if people who think like me, come to power hooyah will be the first to be held.

And no, a flag burning law will never be passed.  The only possibility is through an amendment to the constitution and that would be nearly impossible to do.  Any other law passed would be declared unconstitutional by the supreme court.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 08:39 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from Guest at 08:39 AM on December 12, 2002 :
And no, a flag burning law will never be passed.  The only possibility is through an amendment to the constitution and that would be nearly impossible to do.  Any other law passed would be declared unconstitutional by the supreme court.



you should look into it a little more, every time it comes up for vote it gets more support, i pray it doesnt, but i know it will.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 10:23 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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It may pass the congress, but would never be ratified by 2/3 of the states which is what would be required.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:49 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
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Being a lunatic doesnt mean you can be arrested hooyah. You actually have to DO something.
Im searching my heart. I dont see a problem with flag burning. The constitution doesnt only protect "mature" speech. Limiting the formats one can express an idea is the same as limiting an idea.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:24 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from Guest at 3:49 PM on December 12, 2002 :
It may pass the congress, but would never be ratified by 2/3 of the states which is what would be required.



i hope you are right.



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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 7:35 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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If you don't think it's wrong, then why don't you go light one up.
The only reason you're saying it's wrong (correct me if I'M wrong) to ban flag burning is to 'protect' the small (0.01) percent of people who would want to do such a thing.
I'm not saying would should put these "cavemen" to death, but we should as a nation, stand up and declare that we are a nation united, and will not tolerate people who disrespect our nation.


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 8:33 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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I don't "light one up" b/c i have no reason to. I also have no reason to allow conservatives to speak (And I feel their idiotic rhetoric is disrespecting our nation as well), but that doesnt mean I wage a crusade to stop them from expressing themselves.
"I disagree with what you say, and will fight to the death to defend your right to say it." -Voltaire
"If all of mankind, minus one, was of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one than he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind." -John Stuart Mill


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 8:52 PM on December 12, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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I agree 100% that freedom of speech should be protected; and IT IS.

But burning the flag, in my opinion, does not fall under freedom of speech. (When you do it in the middle of a public street or place.)
In this "time of terrorism," we already have enough problems with non-Americans attacking us. (Not just buildings, but our beliefs as well.) We don't need our own "people" turning against us as well.

It seems that part of the argument here is whether or not the majority should have more say than the minority.
How efficient is our "Democracy" if we pass laws that only benefit 0.01% of the people; and by the same token say "Screw the other 99.9%!"

My hope is that anyone who burns an American Flag will catch fire themselves.
But my ultimate hope is that, someday, there will be no majority or minority.
Then maybe we can do away with the most evil thing of all: being "Politically Correct."


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 7:52 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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Quote from hooyah at 8:52 PM on December 13, 2002 :
I agree 100% that freedom of speech should be protected; and IT IS.

But burning the flag, in my opinion, does not fall under freedom of speech. (When you do it in the middle of a public street or place.)
In this "time of terrorism," we already have enough problems with non-Americans attacking us. (Not just buildings, but our beliefs as well.) We don't need our own "people" turning against us as well.


So basically, freedom of speech except when its
a) public
b) inconvienant
People can talk all the want, as long as the public doesnt have to hear it, and it doesnt cause any harm to current majority beliefs.
I say that if we don't allow people to protest against the government, aren't allowed to attack american "beliefs" then the people should turn against us. Terrorism that threatens our basic freedoms doesn't justify taking those freedoms away. That isn't combating terrorism, that's doing their job for them.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 11:25 PM on December 13, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from hooyah at 7:52 PM on December 13, 2002 :
But burning the flag, in my opinion, does not fall under freedom of speech. (When you do it in the middle of a public street or place.)

It seems that part of the argument here is whether or not the majority should have more say than the minority.
How efficient is our "Democracy" if we pass laws that only benefit 0.01% of the people; and by the same token say "Screw the other 99.9%!"





I don't understand.  By your reasoning  free speech should be conducted where no one can hear or see me, someplace out of the way and hidden.  Out in public and in the open is the best place to exercise the First Amendment.

In my opinion flag burning is stupid and political sucide.  It only makes enemies of people who could be potential allies in your cause.  Yet I still support peoples rights to do stupid things.  

When .01% of people don't have the right to free speech.  Then the other 99.99% also don't.  You are confusing democracy with government.  Democracy will always be inefficient and chaoitic, there is no way around it.  I hate government and politicians.  That does not mean I hate my country or my neighbors.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:50 AM on December 21, 2002 | IP
hooyah

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Okay, first, when I said "in a public place" I was talking about flag burning.  Didn't think I needed to clarify that, but obviously I did.

I'll guarantee you, if you go walking down the middle of a public street or sidewalk in Texas, burning ANYTHING, you're probably headed for the crazy house!

Damn, you people think that every !@#%#ing thing falls under freedom of speech.
Someone in the middle of Times Square with a nuclear bomb--"Oh he's just expressing his dislike of American Government."  "Leave him alone!"

Gotta protect that 0.01 % at ANY cost, don't we?


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A just government has nothing to fear from an armed citizenry!
 


Posts: 110 | Posted: 03:10 AM on December 23, 2002 | IP
    
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