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       Why do you think the US is really moving into Iraq?

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thistownwilleatu

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What are your opinions to why the US is suddenly so worried with Iraq?  Bush is making it sound like we are the knight in shining armor saving the Iraqi princess, what are his real motives?


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 4:14 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Thats simple, loyalty to his father and finishing the war he started.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 9:04 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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I think your right, but I think that even something as low as that is to honorable for Bush to take it all the way.  The US has never participated in a war that wasn't motivated by money.  And with our notorious reputation for establishing regimes, I'm thinking about the huge profit that Bush could make by slipping in someone who would help us with our little oil situation.  



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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 10:27 PM on October 11, 2002 | IP
AlexanderTheGreat

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what motives should the president have to enter a war? i'm all for overthrowing dictators, peace-keeping and enforcement, and intervening for human rights violations, but we must be selective, because we cannot be everywhere at once. we should choose according to self-interest.


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Alex
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 05:25 AM on October 19, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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What better things did we have to do during the genocide in Bosnia.  It took us years to put forth a minimal effort to help.  But the day Kuwait was invaded, buddy we were there, to "save those under the horrible oppression of Saddam."  It's not a matter of being selective, our government is so driven by greed that we didn't care about Bosnia...it had no oil.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 09:32 AM on October 21, 2002 | IP
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Why are we always the knights in shinning armour we should let them solve there own problems and if it gets messy then and only then should we step in.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:52 PM on October 21, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Because a lot of times, such as in Bosnia, the people couldn't help themselves.  


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 12:38 AM on October 22, 2002 | IP
Exxoss

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Bush's motives are simple: OIL AND CASH.  Its very easy to see: All of a sudden, we go into an oil crisis.  What do we do?  We attack a nice oil country called Iraq because there is a possibility that they have bad things over there.  And the war on terrorism will cost big bucks, so what do we do?  Sell the war spoils:oil.  Bush is a ****ing idiot.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

-Exxoss
 


Posts: 438 | Posted: 7:23 PM on November 1, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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no no that does not make him an idiot but rather an entrpaneur...we all know his ties with the texas oil industry as well as his dads.  i wouldnt call him stupid but rather greedy.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:33 AM on November 2, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i agree with will, the only reason we didnt go in Bosnia is because there was no oil. Bush is totally driven by oil and that is why we are going to war with iraq


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 2:14 PM on November 17, 2002 | IP
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As that song goes-
Money money money money, money!
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:53 PM on November 22, 2002 | IP
debategirl88

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Bush is one of the GREATEST presidents ever. We wouldn't of made it through 9-11 without him.
I was watching FOX news one day and they showed a film clip of when saddam had a deadly gas tested on a road  there were a bunch of babies, toddlers, and children . They are cruel to people who can't defend themselves (like a school bully) and our president sees it neccasary to go stand up for them. PLUS if they get away with that, Its gonna be Hitler all over again.


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 8:15 PM on January 3, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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you practically worship George W Bush, but can you give one single reason why besides 9-11? i didnt think so. not to mention we could have gotten through 9-11 with virtually any president. you have no evidence to back up your claim


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:11 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 2:14 PM on November 17, 2002 :
i agree with will, the only reason we didnt go in Bosnia is because there was no oil. Bush is totally driven by oil and that is why we are going to war with iraq


Hi there.  Should I join this debate too?

(Edited by kelvin90703 1/9/2003 at 9:14 PM).
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:07 PM on January 9, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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Saddam is not crazy, he is not stupid.  But who really knows what goes on in a persons head when he has absolute power in his country.

Why does he need a nuclear reactor?  Not to produce cheap electricity.  Nuclear reactors produce two things:  expensive electricity and bomb grade nuclear fuel.

Do you think he stills hold a grudge ten years after we kicked his butt?  He seems like a nice man.  I don't think he is still angry.  I can be pretty sure the UN has looked everywhere you can hide a backpack nuclear bomb.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 9:21 PM on January 9, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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if the motivation was truly terrorism and not oil, then we would attack north korea first


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 11:27 PM on January 9, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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When the Gulf War ended, Iraq signed an agreement to never do certain things in exchange for us to stop shooting.  They no longer have to right to build certain weapons, they no longer have the right to deny us inspection, they no longer have the right to fly fixed wing aircraft in the north or south parts of their own country, etc.

So we have a signed agreement with their government to do certain things we want to, anytime we want to: inspections, shoot down aircraft, and take reprisals for certain things that Iraq has done.

We are doing everything we can with Korea.  I don't belive the Koreans are helping train or fund cells of terrorist.  Instead the North Koreans are trying to finger the rest of the world by sending a nuclear missile into Japan.  After a lot of effort, GW Bush will be able counter that in 2004 with Balistic Missile Defense.

Oh the oil is important too, but not Iraqi oil.  Are you suggesting that the US is going to come in and just take Iraqi oil?  If that happened we would loose the frienship of every friendly Islamic nation, including Saudi Arabia.  GW Bush wants to keep the Saudi oil flowing, and what is wrong with that.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:09 AM on January 18, 2003 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 2:14 PM on November 17, 2002 :
i agree with will, the only reason we didnt go in Bosnia is because there was no oil. Bush is totally driven by oil and that is why we are going to war with iraq



I truely belive that Bill Clinton did not go into Bosnia to reduce US military involvement in that region.  Clinton did not want any US casualties.  That was also a hallmark in how he handled Somalia.  Good, bad, moral, immoral, his judgement spared US lives by not sending troops into Bosnia.  Idealism has a price.  We are paying the price now.

Why didn't Bill Clinton send inspectors into Iraq?  Oh I forget he did.  But Iraq kicked them out.  I repeat again, Iraq gave up the right to deny inpection.

GW is cleaning up his mess.  To quote Herbert Shughart at the White House ceremony when he collected his dead son's Congresional Medal of Honor for action in Somalia, Clinton "your not fit to be commander in chief".

(Edited by kelvin90703 1/18/2003 at 01:39 AM).
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 01:36 AM on January 18, 2003 | IP
aasha_

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http://acetjcom.vwh.net/rj/Theory/Carlyle.htm

The Best Enemies Money Can Buy

From Hitler To Saddam Hussein to Osama bin Laden – Insider Connections and the Bush Family’s Partnership with Killers of Americans

Brown Brothers, Harriman - BNL- and the Carlyle Group

Since the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, major media powerhouses and the increasingly influential alternative media alike have begun to focus attention on Bush family connections and a long history of arming and financing America’s attackers in the months and years prior to the outbreak of war. Recent stories in the Wall Street Journal (Sept. 27 & 28, 2001), ABC News (Oct. 1, 2001), as well as a host of reports from so-called alternative news sources have begun to focus attention on the Bush family’s profit-making role in creating and arming our enemies.


---

Adolph Hitler


George W. Bush’s grandfather, Prescott Bush, was the Managing Director of the investment bank Brown Brothers, ...and  served as the principal funding arm in helping to finance Adolph Hitler’s rise to power starting in 1923. This included direct funding for the SS and SA channeled through a variety of German firms. Prescott Bush, through associations with the Hamburg-Amerika Steamship line,... used the Union Bank Corporation to funnel vast quantities of money to the Nazis and to manage their American interests.
Early support for Hitler came from Prescott Bush through the Hamburg-Amerika Steamship line -- also funded by Brown Bothers -- that funneled large sums of money and weapons to Hitler’s storm troopers in the 1920s.


Furthermore, a 1942 U.S. government investigative report that surfaced during 1945 Senate hearings found that the Union Bank, with Prescott Bush on the board, ... produced:

-        50.8% of Nazi Germany’s pig iron

-        41.4% of Nazi Germany’s universal plate

-        36% of Nazi Germany’s heavy plate

-        38.5% of Nazi Germany’s galvanized sheet

-        45.5% of Nazi Germany’s pipes and tubes

-        22.1% of Nazi Germany’s wire

-        35% of Nazi Germany’s explosives

The business relationships established by Bush in 1923 continued even after the war started until they became so offensive and overt as to warrant seizure by the U.S. government under the Trading with the Enemy Act in 1942.

In 1942, “Under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the government took over Union Banking Corporation, in which Bush was a director. The U.S. Alien Property Custodian seized Union Banking Corp.’s stock shares…

Prescott Bush went on to become an influential Republican Senator from Connecticut who went on to be a regular golfing partner of President Dwight Eisenhower. His attorneys were the lawyers John Foster and Allen Dulles, the later became the CIA Director under Eisenhower.

Saddam Hussein

After becoming President in January 1989, Prescott Bush’s son, George Herbert Walker Bush – father of our current President – authorized a series of programs that not only armed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein but also provided him with technology that assisted in his development of chemical weapons like Sarin gas, and biological weapons, which he still possesses. ... Bush directives and policies, including relationships with the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro (BNL) were directly and deliberately responsible for creating the army the U.S. fought in 1991.

A story by Russ W. Baker, in the March/April issue the Colombia Journalism Review (CJR), provided the most compelling overview of Iraqgate that I have seen.

“ABC News Nightline opened last June 9 with words to make the heart stop ‘It is becoming increasingly clear,’ said a grave Ted Koppel, ‘that George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam’s Iraq into the aggressive power that the United States ultimately had to destroy…

"We’ve learned that a vast network of companies, based in the U.S. and abroad, eagerly fed the Iraqi war machine right up until August 1990, when Saddam invaded Kuwait.

“And we’ve learned that the obscure Atlanta Branch of Italy’s largest bank, Banca Nazionale del Lavoro, relying partly on U.S. taxpayer-guaranteed loans, funneled $5 billion to Iraq from 1985 to 1989. ... U.S. taxpayers have been left holding the bag for what looks like $2 billion in defaulted loans to Iraq.

“… In fact, we now know that in February 1990, then Attorney General Dick Thornburgh [appointed by George H.W. Bush] blocked U.S. investigators from traveling to Rome and Istanbul to pursue the case…

“… As New York Times columnist William Safire argued last December 7, ‘Iraqgate is uniquely horrendous: a scandal about the Systematic abuse of power by misguided leaders of three democratic nations [The U.S., Britain, and Italy] to secretly finance the arms buildup of a dictator.”


The Carlyle Group, the Bushes and bin Laden

The warnings about the Carlyle Group, the nation’s 11th largest defense contractor, and the Bushes came long before the World Trade Center attacks. The Carlyle Group is a closely held corporation, exempt, for that reason, from reporting its affairs to the Securities and Exchange Commission. Little is known of what it actually does except that it buys and sells defense contractors. As of October 4, 2001, it has removed its corporate web site from the World Wide Web making further investigation through that channel impossible. Its Directors include Frank Carlucci, former Reagan Secretary of Defense; James Baker, former Bush Secretary of State; and Richard Darman, a former White House aide to Ronald Reagan and Republican Party operative.

On March 3, 2001, just weeks after George W Bush’s inauguration, the conservative Washington lobbying group Judicial Watch issued a press release. It said:

“(Washington, D.C.) Judicial Watch, the public interest law firm that investigates and prosecutes government abuse and corruption, called on former President George Herbert Walker Bush to resign immediately from the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm, while his son President George W. Bush is in office. Today's New York Times reported that the elder Bush is an "ambassador" for the $12 billion private investment firm and last year traveled to the Middle East on its behalf. The former president also helped the firm in South Korea.

“The New York Times reported that as compensation, the elder Bush is allowed to buy a stake in the Carlyle Group's investments, which include ownership in at least 164 companies throughout the world (thereby by giving the current president an indirect benefit). James Baker, the former Secretary of State who served as President George W. Bush's point man in Florida's election dispute, is a partner in the firm. The firm also gave George W. Bush help in the early 1990's when it placed him on one of its subsidiary's board of directors.

"This is simply inappropriate. Former President Bush should immediately resign from the Carlyle Group because it is an obvious conflict of interest. Any foreign government or foreign investor trying to curry favor with the current Bush Administration is sure to throw business to the Carlyle Group. And with the former President Bush promoting the firm's investments abroad, foreign nationals could understandably confuse the Carlyle Group's interests with the interests of the United States government," stated Larry Klayman, Judicial Watch Chairman and General Counsel.

"Questions are now bound to be raised if the recent Bush Administration change in policy towards Iraq has the fingerprints of the Carlyle Group, which is trying to gain investments from other Arab countries who [sic] would presumably benefit from the new policy," stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.”


.... Osama bin Laden’s attacks on the WTC and Pentagon, with the resulting massive increase in the U.S. defense budget have just made his family a great big pile of money.

 


Posts: 29 | Posted: 1:09 PM on January 24, 2003 | IP
aasha_

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please read it... take the time to inform yourself... this man can literally bring the world to WWIII... His grandfather is responsible for funding Hitler and causing that World War....

I literally broke down and cried when I finished reading that article.... I can not believe that these are the times in which we live ... I can't believe that such corruption exists... who can stop them....? We went to a war with Iraq because Bush funded Suddam's army...

And then before him his grandfather funded Hitler's army.... What the hell is going on!

Why aren't they in jail?

And now Bush Jr. wants to take us in to destroy that country some more....
Come on.

We know Korea has weapons of mass destruction and they are threatening to use them if we try to attack them militarily.... and we are so threatened by that ...that we chose to deal with them diplomatically.... but GW Bush claims that Iraq has these weapons ... so why he is not afraid to invade Iraq.... what ever it is that Iraq has does not scare Bush enough to deter him from attacking... Like he is afraid to attack North Korea....

Yesterday Bush's press secretary say's that Bush doesn't care what the protestors say and he doesn't care what the polls say ... he is going to attack Iraq anyway...if he thinks that's what's for the good of the nation...

Are we now in a dictatorship...

One man does not determine the good of a nation... He acts like he is a King or something....

And it seems as if nobody is challenging him... the media doesn't ask those questions... people are just sitting back and letting this happen...



 


Posts: 29 | Posted: 1:11 PM on January 24, 2003 | IP
aasha_

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Everybody please go online and read about the Carlyle Group... once you do I want you to tell me if you ... then  don't have a better understanding of  what Bush's motivations are...
 


Posts: 29 | Posted: 1:14 PM on January 24, 2003 | IP
XYOU

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One thing for sure, who vote Bush this shiiitttt  to be President should regret and feel guilty now !


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If you don't understand my English, pls don't blame me and you, that's God's idea !
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 12:16 PM on January 29, 2003 | IP
debategirl88

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Look, Bush is making the right decision. We gave him time to disarm. The inspector are fsearcing for a contact lens in a football field. He showed no evidence that he destroyed the weopons of mass destruction that he had 12 yrs ago. We tryed peace it didn't work like Bush said in the state of the union address. Saddam is playing cat and mouse. We need to kick his butt before its to late. If we don't go to war the a-bomb or desease bomb is a comin. We need to trake care of it NOW!!!!


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 10:45 PM on January 29, 2003 | IP
listentome

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One word - C o r r u p t i o n

In third world countries, its obvious
In communist countries, its forced down their throats
In the USA, its there but p.c.-fied ...like a "pre-owned car" is a "used car".

Many liberals think Bush is a neo-fascist, conservatives see him as a savior.
Sorry, but he is neither a fascist nor a savior.

He isn't going to war for american citizens - sorry conservatives...he could care less about you and me.

He isn't going to war to subjugate islam...he has shown he is open to race and nationality, certainly not fascist qualities.

He is a cronyist, which is not much different from any other career politician...He is going to war to help himself and those close to him.

He, like Thaksin Shinawatra, like Ferdinand Marcos, like Suharto, simply want to advance their personal (money + power) interests.

I can't say there has been many a politicans who didn't, but what i personally don't like is the length at which he will go to obtain it.


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* balance not bickering *
 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 03:31 AM on July 6, 2005 | IP
gumbo

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it is all in the first acronym for the invation: Operation Iraqi Liberation aka OIL


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Heron of Alexandria invented modern times.

-Gumbo A.
yes my real name is Gumbo Akmed
 


Posts: 14 | Posted: 8:17 PM on December 1, 2005 | IP
Spedcial

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Quote from thistownwilleatu at 10:27 PM on October 11, 2002 :
The US has never participated in a war that wasn't motivated by money.


-Revolutionary War
-WWI
-WWII

Perhaps you should read a sixth grade history book.

At the times of those wars, we had a much more respectable government though. This war was to finish what Pappa Bush had started. Plus, it sure did cause oil prices to sky-rocket. Sure, Dubbya has been involved with the oil industry for most of his life, but why would we assume that he would want to boost prices and fill his own pockets? That little redneck bastard did this for the money.

On a side note, the constitution states that we don't have to pay taxes unless we are at war. One guy fought the IRS on a tax evation charge, and won with the constitution as his argument. Since then, it seems we've been at war.


 


Posts: 5 | Posted: 03:19 AM on January 3, 2006 | IP
Mausal

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The reasons for Bush's Iraq war were to finish what daddy had started and he wanted to control another country with lots of oil.

Most of the wars the US has participated in, were started by the US because those countries didn't have the democracy the US wanted, like Vietnam.

P.S.: If you think the oil price is high in the USA, you should look what oil costs in the rest of the world....
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 8:57 PM on May 28, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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Um, how exactly do we "control" Iraq?  What monetary benefit have we obtained by this?  It boils down to this.  Iraq thumbed their noses at the UN for WELL OVER A DECADE when it came to the rules of their treaty (which ended the first war against Iraq when they tried to take over Kuwait).  If the UN had any intestinal fortitude whatsoever, this war would never have been started.  The UN is a joke.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 10:59 PM on May 28, 2006 | IP
Mausal

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Did you actually read what I wrote??
I said Bush wanted to control Iraq and not that the USA now controls Iraq!
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 11:51 AM on May 30, 2006 | IP
EMyers

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You said that he wanted to "control another country with lots of oil".  First, what oil-laden country do we control now.  Second, we are trying to get a democratic government set up in Iraq so we can get out, what control is it that we are gaining?  If we wanted to control them, we could just take them over.  We are not in there to control anyone, we took over the job that the UN pledged to do, but didn't have the guts to do.  Plain and simple.


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"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 3:05 PM on May 30, 2006 | IP
TRIGGER

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Quote from Exxoss at 7:23 PM on November 1, 2002 :
Bush's motives are simple: OIL AND CASH.  Its very easy to see: All of a sudden, we go into an oil crisis.  What do we do?  We attack a nice oil country called Iraq because there is a possibility that they have bad things over there.  And the war on terrorism will cost big bucks, so what do we do?  Sell the war spoils:oil.  Bush is a ****ing idiot.


May be you should get a new calendar the oil crisis happended after we went to Iraqi. The oil crisis is of our own doing, we haven't built an oil refinery in over 20 years (our refinery's are running at capacity) and haven't drilled any wells in quit a while either.... Remember back in the 80's when we were warned about depending on foreige oil well I guess it came true. Of course the fact that China is sucking up oil at a blistering pace has nothing to do with it? I guess we didn't find any WMDs either that is if you forget about the 4500 pounds of 30% processed uranium that were found.


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MACHINE GUNS? go to WWW.hansonshoot.com
 


Posts: 127 | Posted: 6:48 PM on June 17, 2006 | IP
    
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