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squirt1983

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I want to know what all of ya'll think about women being in combat?  It's our country. Shouldn't we have the right to defend it the best we can?  It is just as much our country as it is ANY man's, so why can't men and women defend it equally, side-by-side???  -Jeni


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Happiness is wetting your pants--the whole world can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
-Author Unknown
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 01:00 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Yeah i think you guys should be free to kill people and die right alongside us men, for me personally it is not a right i'd be to keen on fighting for, but youre right.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 03:03 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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I think woman in the military is a good idea except for two places, submarines and the front lines.  Submarine for the fact that they stay submerged for months at a time and one woman locked in a steel tank 500 feet below the surface with 75 men looking at her, something bad will happen.  And the front line because most woman, not all but most have more of a passive attitude and I don't know how well they would handle themselves under fire.  But then again a lot of men break down too.  I just think men are more suted for it then woman.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 03:29 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
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i was in the airforce and i was stationed at rammstein airbase in germany. i was a maintenance technition for avionics. we had three women in our squad of mechnics ....i hate to sound sexist but every time we got bogged down with broken planes (which usually occured in early summer due to nice weather and more flight time) the women would suddenly become "pregenant" the military has no right to test the women for pregnacy and they can not work them in this type of field while pregenant...sure enough as it slowed down the either had a "miscarriage" or it was "aborted" or just a false alarm....how conveinient...what makes you think this wont appen anywhere else...espicially in a trench. im sorry but that is not a place for a women to be.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 03:51 AM on October 18, 2002 | IP
squirt1983

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I am in the ARMY, I know what its like to be under fire.  I can handle it.  I'm not saying every woman can, but not every woman has to.  It should be our own choice not societies choice.  They don't want to see their mothers and daughters dead, but its our country and we should be able to defend it equally.  And if you don't think that women should be on the front line, then where should we be, in the kitchen?


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Happiness is wetting your pants--the whole world can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
-Author Unknown
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 4:58 PM on October 18, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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You know what its like to be under fire, where were you in combat?  What is your rank, what is your position.  And to be completely honest, I would feel much more comfortable fighting next to a man then a woman.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 5:05 PM on October 18, 2002 | IP
squirt1983

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I have been in combat, not on the front lines have you, but in combat.  I got back from Bosnia about 4 months ago.  I'm going to Afganistan next month, and in six months when I come back from Afganistan, I'll be home for a week before I ship off to Kuwait, or depending on if we're at war with Iraq by then, maybe Iraq.  I am only a PFC, but that doesn't mean I don't know how to use my weapon.  I'll have you know, that in my unit, I scored highest out of males and females on my weapons qualification.  I hit 38 out of 40 possible targets, and the next highest out of the unit, by another female, was 37.  The highest score any male in our unit got was a 31.  So you're saying that if you had 40 enemies running at you, you'd rather have someone next to you who could only shoot 31 of them, rather than 37 or 38?? Just because he's a man??


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Happiness is wetting your pants--the whole world can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
-Author Unknown
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 02:00 AM on October 19, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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In a time of war I would rather have a man that shot 30 targets then a woman who shot 40.  I just feel that under attack a woman would be more apt to freeze up.  Have you ever actually been under fire?


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 02:20 AM on October 19, 2002 | IP
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what unit or divison are you in and who is your co...i think you are full of crap honestly
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:52 AM on October 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Thank you, this girl just turned 19 and supposidly saw all this action, I think not.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 04:45 AM on October 20, 2002 | IP
squirt1983

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First of all, you don't know me or anything about me, so don't go assuming anything.  Just because I am 'only' 19, doesn't mean jack.  I have been there, under fire.  Okay.  When I was in Bosnia I was with the 82nd Airborne unit out of Ft. Bragg.  They've recently transfered me down here to Ft. Carson, and I'm in the 3rdACR.  But you know what, I don't care what you think of me, whether I'm a liar just because I'm 'only' 19.  What matters is that I'm out there defending our country, and out there, we're all equals and I don't have to answer to anybody. Especially someone like you, who can't respect me for who I am and what I am doing, but you have to have credentials to believe me.  I don't have to prove myself to anybody, so I'm done wasting my time with you.


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Happiness is wetting your pants--the whole world can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
-Author Unknown
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 6:13 PM on October 20, 2002 | IP
dsadevil

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this is absurd. tsmith (and "guest"), there was absolutely no provocation to question squirt's credibilty. I expected better than that from you. If we are going to debate this, than debate the issue, don't resort to dumb prejudices and baseless ad hominems


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 6:26 PM on October 20, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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Your right and squirt I am sorry, it just seemed odd to me.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 11:12 PM on October 20, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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i personally think that women should be in the military.  don't get me wrong or anything, i'm not a sexist, but if women have equal rights, then shouldn't they equal responsibilities as well?  i also believe that some kind of study showed that women have more endurance and higher thresh hold for pain than men do.  i vaguely remember hearing about that, so i may not be very accurate but i think that i am.  if anyone has heard about it or knows more about it, please post it.  i think could definitely add to this debate


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 11:57 PM on October 20, 2002 | IP
squirt1983

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Thank you Tsmith for that apology.  I just didn't appreciate the fact that you thought I was a fake and a phony.  A 19, with all that 'experience' is pretty hard to believe, but stranger things have happened.  My uncle was fighting in Vietnam on his 16th birthday...

Of course women have a higher threshold for pain, thats why we have the babies!!  And yes we should have equal rights, therefore we should have equal responsibilities.  But don't we already have equal responsibilities, if not more than men?
In the average household, both the mother and father work full time.  When she gets home from work, the mother feeds the kids a snack, helps them with homework, gets dinner ready, cleans up after dinner, gets the kids ready for bed, and puts them in bed.  In the morning she has to get ready for work, make breakfast, get the kids ready for school, make sure they have their homework, and then leaves for work, to come home at night and do it all again.  Somewhere inbetween all this, she cleans the house, does the laundry, does the grocery shopping and takes out the trash.
As women we have equal responsibilities, so why can't we fight for our country?


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Happiness is wetting your pants--the whole world can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
-Author Unknown
 


Posts: 41 | Posted: 01:11 AM on October 21, 2002 | IP
Cool-Hand-Dave

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this doesn't really have much to do with the topic, but isn't your list of women's responsibilities largely assumed and very generalized.  Many women in this country aren't married and many don't have plans to be so.  Many that are married don't want children.  And even in that, men and women often share equal roles in the house hold now-a-days.  Just thought I'd throw my opinion on that in here.


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Cool Hand Dave
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 09:27 AM on October 21, 2002 | IP
locagirl

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i think woman definately should be able to fight for our country. and they should be able to fight in front lines, too.  there is no reason why males would be better at fighting then females, so if we want to help our country, why should we not be allowed to do so??
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 3:33 PM on November 8, 2002 | IP
lindemne

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I guess for me it is a question of weather women are physically fit enough for combat.  I mean can they handle a 90 lb ruck walking up hills, observing noise discipline, going days on end without a latrine and running water.  It is not a question of weather they can shoot or not, it is a question of being physically capable.  Maybe their are some women who can but is it the majority?  The answer is no.  The majority of men can handle it and that is not sexist.  That is the way men are built.  They are physical creatures while women are physical in the way that man is not.  Men are built for combat women are not.  
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 10:37 PM on November 9, 2002 | IP
locagirl

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yes and no. have u noticed that woman are normally the ones that win the 100-milers? woman are built to endure pain to the extreme, even if they don't tend to be as physically fit. this is why we are the ones that have babies, not you men, u could never handle that.
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 4:41 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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Men's marathon times are usually 40 min faster than womens.  As far as childbirth....you're right, thank god youre right.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 4:54 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
locagirl

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a marathon is 26.2 miles, a 100-miler is 100. there is a difference.
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 5:07 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

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ummmm.  ok.


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"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 11:51 PM on November 11, 2002 | IP
Bograt

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Women in the military? yes. Women in front-line combat? no. I do not want to sound sexist or anything, but just the logistics of it are overwhelming. Face it: women have certain..er... biological differances that make combat impractical. Supporting women in the field would take lots of time and money. Not to mention that being surrounded by young, horny men constantly would lead to certain....complications not found in current front line units. But don't get me wrong, if I'm in a fighting hole, I want the person next to me to be able to shoot as well as possible, I just don't want the distraction of it being a female.


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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 6:45 PM on December 6, 2002 | IP
meditate

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Women have a very good reason to be on the front lines. First off, women's accuracy and steadiness in stressful situations is proven. They are built to keep cool when things are going wrong. A woman knows how to hold her head up when things get rough, and i've seen lots of men, big physically fit men, buckle from the mental stress. Women have much better mental strength than men do. Plus, if all else fails(this is intended as a joke only) women can always streak the enemy and blow him away when he is stunned. Most men are REALLY weak like that. I commend you squirt1983 standing up to all the sexist bull. Goes to show the rest of us men how good women are at not backing down from a fight !!!


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Meditate
 


Posts: 33 | Posted: 2:35 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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i dont think women shouldnt be allowed to fight just like men, the problem is men get horny.  


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 9:24 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
tsmith2771

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I'm sorry but I would feel much more confident with a man sitting next to me in a fox hole then a woman.  I would just feel safer with a man fighting with me then a woman.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 04:14 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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Quote from squirt1983 at 01:00 AM on October 18, 2002 :
I want to know what all of ya'll think about women being in combat?  It's our country. Shouldn't we have the right to defend it the best we can?  It is just as much our country as it is ANY man's, so why can't men and women defend it equally, side-by-side???  -Jeni


this issue was resolved about 80 years ago, you guys have the same oppurtunities as us males do, of course u still do only 89 cents for every buck a male makes
-i am xenjael


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:30 PM on December 11, 2002 | IP
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Women shoudn't be in combat unless there are no men that able to fight.

Reason 1. Average women is weaker than an average men.

Reason 2. Combat readiness? How long does it take for deployment medical screening? Couple days for women. Couple hours for men.  Pregnancy screening?

Reason 3. POWs, RAPE? PREGNANCE WITH THE ENEMY?

Reason 4. They are women.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:01 PM on December 19, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from Guest at 4:01 PM on December 19, 2002 :
Women shoudn't be in combat unless there are no men that able to fight.

Reason 1. Average women is weaker than an average men.

Reason 2. Combat readiness? How long does it take for deployment medical screening? Couple days for women. Couple hours for men.  Pregnancy screening?

Reason 3. POWs, RAPE? PREGNANCE WITH THE ENEMY?

Reason 4. They are women.


I don't belive in your reason #4.  But I do agree that this country is not ready to watch female prisoners or war beaten, tortured, raped, and executed.

I do belive women would make good front line combat soldiers.  Women are quite able to carry out hostility.  Just try an imagine what any mom would do to try and protect a baby or imagine a girlfriend that got dumped and cheaten on.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 5:15 PM on January 1, 2003 | IP
debategirl88

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ok I'm gonna start out by saying women should be able to be in combat WITHOUT controversy about it.
I'm 14, when I graduate from college i want to join either the army or the air force. i want to become a fighter piolot. I want to fly F-14 Tomcats. This is going to sound REALLY corny, but I want to become the Lady President of the United States.
I wish squirt and smith good luck in your military lives and after that.


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 8:01 PM on January 3, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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nice to know that you have a liberal side to you, debategirl...because most conservatives are strongly against women in combat


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:14 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
debategirl88

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There are some issues I don't agree with republicans ( one or two). I guess this is one of them.


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 4:12 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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i agree with kelvin, i think women would make excellent front line soldiers in most cases, i just dont feel the world is ready for that.  and i am conservative.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 6:12 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
sourbubblegum

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Women should have the same rights as men. I see nothing wrong with women wanting to be soldiers its their choice.


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 10:10 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
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I was just thinking. Why in the hell would women WANT to be in combat? It's possible the most horrible thing that could happen to a person, even IF you survive, and people are fighting tooth and nail to do this? I admit, as a young, eager Marine I want to go "get some" but I at least relize the horror that awaits me if I do go.


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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 11:05 PM on January 4, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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maynard, why should we keep women from being front line soldiers because "the world is not ready for that"?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 01:05 AM on January 5, 2003 | IP
sourbubblegum

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Bograt- Well why do men even want to be in combat? The horror is the same as it would be for them. lol


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 08:49 AM on January 5, 2003 | IP
Bograt

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For the most part, men don't WANT to. They get ordered to and they go. Rare is the combat vet that wants to go back, but they do the people who you see chomping at the bit to go are those that have never been before. Women, (or at least the vast majority) have never intentionaly been on the front lines. Now with all this equal oppertunity stuff going on (I think it's good) women feel the need to prove themselves equal to men in every way. I myself have never seen combat, but the possibility is very real that I will and after talking to my gandpa's and other assorted relatives that have been in war, they all say (about) the same thing: Ignorance is bliss. Also, no it would not be the same for they. Men do not get pregnant, go on the rag (even though a platoon of "that time of the monthing" women would strike fear into the hearts of their enemies) and even though men can be raped, it's a whole lot easier to do it to a woman.


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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 09:18 AM on January 5, 2003 | IP
debategirl88

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Women, just like alot of men, want to do it to stand up for there country. Thats why I want to. I see our country in situations like we are in now aand it makes me mad that people say we shouldn't go to war. PLUS, men are not MADE to go to war not  since the Vietnam War.


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 3:48 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
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I would assume the reason women would want to go on the frontlines is the same reason blacks kept volunteering for combat even when people said they couldn't do it. They want to defend their country, and prove they CAN defend their country.


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"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rodgers<br><br><br>"Neither man nor nation can prosper unless in looking at the present, thought is steadily taken for the future." -T. Roosevelt<br><br>"Might I remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice, is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater<br><br>

Respect through Excellence only
 


Posts: 789 | Posted: 4:17 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
sourbubblegum

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Who cares if women want to go to combat it should be their own choice and nobody elses. i on the other hand would not risk my life for it.

PeAcE


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 5:32 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 01:05 AM on January 5, 2003 :
maynard, why should we keep women from being front line soldiers because "the world is not ready for that"?


i just dont think many men soldiers would respect a woman doing "their" job.  plus there would be numerous sexual harassment charges, and then probably get into equality issues as well.



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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 6:37 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
Broker

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I say let them do it... they can do the same as men. Anyone who is brave enough to defend this nation should be allowed to. I know I could never do it... I don't like violence and there is no way I could be shooting at people unless it was just a game or simulation, especially if someone is shooting at me. I'd break down really fast in combat. Anyone who is willing to risk everything for this nation should be able to.


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Don't tell me I'm conservative...I know that!
 


Posts: 351 | Posted: 8:37 PM on January 5, 2003 | IP
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women fought for russia in ww2. This was a great way to fill in gaps for russia's human wave attacks.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 02:03 AM on January 6, 2003 | IP
Bograt

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These days we tend to shy away from human wave attacks. Well, if you really want to, I can see not reason other than the already stated reasons (period, sex, weakness,ect...) I still would prefer to keep my mind on the enemy in combat, and off of breeding.


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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 11:16 AM on January 6, 2003 | IP
debategirl88

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You don't have to worry about what women have to do. Just focus on your part and let us do ours.

>i just dont think many men soldiers would respect a woman doing "their" job.

Maynard, Nothing personal, but I just don't care what men think. Theres plenty of room for men and women.


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 7:38 PM on January 7, 2003 | IP
madbilly

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i dont think any soldier would mind having the dishes done a warm meal a beer wench and a BJ.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 01:50 AM on January 8, 2003 | IP
madbilly

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add to that lista person to sew holes in uniforms, nurses, and eye candy/sexual favor givers


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 6:38 PM on January 8, 2003 | IP
debategirl88

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I don't wanna be a cook I wanna fight. I would NEVER be a cook anyways Ill burn everything. lol!

Also, I rather be treated equally by men, but if they don't I can live with that too. All Im saying is, women can be in combat just as well or even better then men. If I want to take a risk at being killed, captured, looked upon as nothing, or even raped its my choice. ill do anything for my country.


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A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
-Thomas Jefferson
 


Posts: 157 | Posted: 8:47 PM on January 11, 2003 | IP
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Debategirl,

You said "If I want to take a risk a being killed...it is my choice." Very true. If you wish to risk your own life you may, but when you put others in undo danger because of your choice it becomes a problem. There are two major risks caused by putting women in combat situations.

First. A man in the trenches can look left and right at other men, shake their hands, and say "You cover my back and I'll cover yours" without thinking twice about it. But you put a woman in the mix and you instantly deprive the group of its ability to perform at full capability. When a woman is present in a combat situation it is a natural instinct in men to protect her, even if it costs them their own lives. Therefore by placing yourself in a combat situation you not only endanger your own life, you also unnecessarily endanger the lives of the men around you.

Second. If you were to join the military right now, and be deployed to Iraq, you would again be placing the people around you in undo danger, simply by your presence. Iraq is predominantly a Islamic nation, and as such they will not surrender to a woman. As seen in the Gulf War, because of the presence of women in the treaches the enemy refused to surrender, and we lost "many a good man" because of it.

I am not against women in the military, but I am against unnecessarily endangering the lives of our armed forces by female presence in combat situations. There are many ways which women can serve their country outside the trenches.


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Are you a man of the times or a man for the times?
 


Posts: 26 | Posted: 01:10 AM on January 12, 2003 | IP
    
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