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Do guns in the home make us safer ?†

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/gun_safety.HTM

(Edited by admin 10/8/2002 at 6:55 PM).
 


Posts: 31 | Posted: 09:54 AM on May 1, 2002 | IP
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I would think that that would depend on where you lived, and who lived with or nearby you.
 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 10:06 PM on September 7, 2002 | IP
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If you are the family, no question about it.  If you are a person coming into the house trying to take something, then no guns are safe to you.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 01:29 AM on September 10, 2002 | IP
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no matter what happens ur most likely to kill a family member or harm them than  kill the culprit
 


Posts: 83 | Posted: 07:08 AM on September 10, 2002 | IP
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I don't believe that for one second.


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"I have no interest in making blacks equal to whites, they are of a lesser quality and this I am sure of." -Abraham Lincoln
"You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other person die for theirs." -General George Patton
 


Posts: 372 | Posted: 1:06 PM on September 10, 2002 | IP
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No.  A child has a better chance of shooting someone than an adult has of getting a gun before the culprit has one against his head.  Guns suck anyway.


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I am Exxoss, come to save you all from your impending doom!!!!
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Posts: 438 | Posted: 3:03 PM on September 25, 2002 | IP
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Handled properly, guns in the home do represent a safety factor, without adding to the danger of an accidental discharge.
The question must be asked, how are you going to handle a violent criminal threat unarmed?

 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 06:03 AM on October 13, 2002 | IP
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My home defense firearm is 40 times more likely to hurt a family member than an intruder.  I have a deliberate and educated decision to use one for home defense.  This is very important "I" have done this for myself.  I did not defer the government or an authority to decide the proper way to protect myself.  I think this question hits to the bone the basis for the gun-control argument.  One side cherishes individual choice.  The other side is more accepting of governmental direction.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:34 PM on December 20, 2002 | IP
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"My home defense firearm is 40 times more likely to hurt a family member than an intruder. †" Eh...what? You believe that?

(Edited by Pie 12/21/2002 at 7:50 PM).


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Posts: 202 | Posted: 7:49 PM on December 21, 2002 | IP
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if everybody in your family is taught how to handle a gun and to respect it, instead of just locking it away from them, then killing a family member by accident isnt an issue.  


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 8:35 PM on December 21, 2002 | IP
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Quote from Pie at 7:49 PM on December 21, 2002 :
"My home defense firearm is 40 times more likely to hurt a family member than an intruder.  " Eh...what? You believe that?

(Edited by Pie 12/21/2002 at 7:50 PM).


Yep.  Sorry I can not name the source other than it was my low light and close quarters combat instructor.  I also belive it is an FBI statistic.   The typical nightmare is father buys a pistol for protection.  Shoots 50 rounds and is convinced he is "qualified".  Stores the pistol on the night stand.  Then shoots mother when she goes to the kitchen in the middle of the night.

I belive a responsible firearms owner gets training, gets practice, and secures his weapon from unwanted use.  I also do not belive in Handgun Control Inc when they try to convice me it is not a good idea to use firearms for self protection, then also do not advice me on an effective and practical way to actually protect myself.

Check out Handgun Control Inc.  It is page after page of "guns are bad idea", "guns are not reasonable".  But no where do they ever recommend a substitute for a firearm.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:13 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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i dont think guns make us safer. Guns cause more harm then good. Your more likely to harm yourself or someone else by accident then a burglar coming in your home.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 4:28 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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i couldnt have said it better myself guest.


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Posts: 85 | Posted: 5:46 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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Quote from Guest at 4:28 PM on December 30, 2002 :
i dont think guns make us safer. Guns cause more harm then good. Your more likely to harm yourself or someone else by accident then a burglar coming in your home.



give me your proof on that.  all my life there was a loaded 44mag in my parents bedroom, the whole family knew about it and knew how to shoot it, no accidents there, so explain that to me.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 7:10 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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Maynard- more people die from accidents because of having a gun in their home then of rhaving a burglar break in. i also have a gun at home. Same as you nobody was hurt. im not saying everyone dies from it just more ppl are harmed from owning a gun then a burglar coming in.


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Posts: 85 | Posted: 7:31 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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FINALLY!! someone else who agrees with me on this topic


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 9:31 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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Here we go: Its a dark and stormy night.... Long are the nights that the Glock you bought has waited for just this moment. It has sat, unloaded and with a trigger lock in the nightstand for months now, waiting. The evil, extreme right-wing gun fanatic that spent hours and days learning all about this Glock and teaching proper use and respect for firearms to his family is about to get his just desserts. Quietly, oh so quietly the gun slips slooowly out of the drawer and unlocks itself. It looks. Hungry for ammunition, and it finds it in the closet on the top shelf and loads itself... Then slaughters the entire family one by one just because its a gun and guns just get up a kill people. HELL NO!!! Training, respect and saftey!!! Come on, people!


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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 10:40 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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The 43:1 is a BS statistic constructed by the Brady Bunch in yet another attempt to prove to us all how firearms are living entities with murder on their minds. I assume this is the "40 times more likely" you are referring to. If not, correct me. Anywho, this study was one in which a I believe a pair of researchers took an area of the US and compared the firearm illegal and justifiable homocide rates. The numbers popped up that a firearm in the home is 43 times more likely to harm a member of the family, friend, ect, than an intruder? Well, there are a few factors at work here which discount this argument.
1)Suicide was included, and this accounted for over 80% of the deaths. Do you think that someone suicidal won't do it because there is no firearm available?
2)Only instances in which the criminal actually dies were counted for the pro gun side. However, it is a fraction of the 2.2-2.8 million defensive gun uses per year that actually kill the assailant. In most cases, the threat of death from a presented firearm, or a warning shot, will avert a potential assailant. Those dumb enough to continue are shot. And there are plenty of woundings, too.

When these are factored into account, the 43:1 is far in favor of owning firearms. Of course, you still should train with them, no point in having one if you can't shoot it.


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Posts: 202 | Posted: 02:45 AM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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actually, the lack of guns in a home decrease the suicide rate. so yes, suicides should be included


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 09:37 AM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Quote from sourbubblegum at 7:31 PM on December 30, 2002 :
Maynard- more people die from accidents because of having a gun in their home then of rhaving a burglar break in. i also have a gun at home. Same as you nobody was hurt. im not saying everyone dies from it just more ppl are harmed from owning a gun then a burglar coming in.



prove it.  give me some hard edvidence please.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 3:10 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 09:37 AM on December 31, 2002 :
actually, the lack of guns in a home decrease the suicide rate. so yes, suicides should be included



please to be proving your statement as well.  you guys give these BS statements and dont seem to be able to back them up.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 3:13 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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"the lack of guns in a home decrease the suicide rate"Once again, I must ask....have you any proof? Evidence?


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Posts: 202 | Posted: 3:14 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Heh. We posted those at the same time.


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Posts: 202 | Posted: 3:15 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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that is funny.

it strange that we seem to have alot more proof that guns do help then dont.


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 3:19 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Wheres your proof that guns help? i know what im talking about. 2 years ago there was a murder on my street. someone was shot in the head and dumped in the cornfield. What do people use guns for besides killing or hunting?


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Posts: 85 | Posted: 3:22 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Quote from sourbubblegum at 3:22 PM on December 31, 2002 :
Wheres your proof that guns help? i know what im talking about. 2 years ago there was a murder on my street. someone was shot in the head and dumped in the cornfield. What do people use guns for besides killing or hunting?



try reading back through the posts, tons of proof that guns are good.  once again, where is your proof backing your statement?

people are killed on a bunch of streets, all the time.  many with guns, many without.  ive had friends shot and killed by guns, and i am not against them.

and you are right guns were invented to kill, but mostly in the name of protection, what is so wrong with that?  you are never going to stop crime with guns, so why would you want to prevent innocent people from protecting themselves?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 4:05 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Yes guns were created to kill. There are other ways to make yourself safe from burglars like getting locks and (dont know what they are called) but those windows that burglars cant break through. things like that.


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 4:27 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Quote from sourbubblegum at 4:27 PM on December 31, 2002 :
Yes guns were created to kill. There are other ways to make yourself safe from burglars like getting locks and (dont know what they are called) but those windows that burglars cant break through. things like that.



locks and unbreakable windows?  what about the innocent mother walking to her car at night that is about to get raped and killed?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 4:31 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Like anyone carrys a gun with them on their way to their car!


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 4:37 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.  They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence... From the hour the pilrims landed, to the present day events, occurences and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable....  The very stmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference-they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

now who is that a quote from?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 4:38 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Well i stand firm on the fact that guns cause more harm then they help save lives.


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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 5:23 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Quote from sourbubblegum at 4:37 PM on December 31, 2002 :
Like anyone carrys a gun with them on their way to their car!



what planet are you on?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 8:17 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
Pie

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I'll go through this post by post...

". someone was shot in the head and dumped in the cornfield. " Am I to assume that the gun leapt out of the attackers hands, cocked itself, shot the person, then took the body and disposed of it? Is this the guns fault? Are they biological entities with wills of their own?

"Like anyone carrys a gun with them on their way to their car!" People with CC licenses do....and they seem to have more luck when attacked then those who don't. Gee, I wonder why?


"Yes guns were created to kill" Duh. What else for? Something to paint a picture with?

"There are other ways to make yourself safe from burglars like getting locks " And all locks are conpletely un-pickable, cannot be broken, and will protect a person walking down the street.

"windows that burglars cant break through" And we all know how everyone in the world can afford these to go on every available space on their house. And we all  know how no one gets attacked on the street.


"guns cause more harm then they help save lives. " You're right...guns do cause harm when citizens are deprived of them, while government agencies are armed. Ever hear of the Holocaust? I assume so. I can find more examples if you want me to. If Jews had been armed during the Nazi reign, how many do you suppose would have been murdered by the government?








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Posts: 202 | Posted: 8:24 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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All im saying is that guns call more harm then good. How many locks do you think can be picked! a cheap lock ! The only people that sctually carry guns on them are the police. normal everyday people just dont walk around with guns!


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Posts: 85 | Posted: 9:37 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Wanna bet? I just love states with CC permits, so the criminals don't know if the person they want to rape/rob/murder ect... is going to put a few holes in them. Makes 'em think twice. (CC= Concealed Carry)


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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 9:47 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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Quote from sourbubblegum at 9:37 PM on December 31, 2002 :
All im saying is that guns call more harm then good. How many locks do you think can be picked! a cheap lock ! The only people that sctually carry guns on them are the police. normal everyday people just dont walk around with guns!



what is wrong with you?  i carry a hand gun all the time, and i am not a cop, so explain that.




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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 10:52 PM on December 31, 2002 | IP
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"All im saying is that guns call more harm then good. " All I'm saying is they do more good than harm.

"How many locks do you think can be picked! " Any, really.

"The only people that sctually carry guns on them are the police. "...And people with CC's. And the bodyguards of those people you commonly hear beyatching about how guns should be taken from the public hands.
Ever ask yourself why, in states where there is a lot of gun control, police still carry guns to protect themselves from armed criminals?



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Posts: 202 | Posted: 03:44 AM on January 1, 2003 | IP
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explain to me pie how guns do more good than harm when they are the most popular weapon used in homicides and they are the easiest way for teens (or anyone for that matter) to commit suicide


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 08:58 AM on January 1, 2003 | IP
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Im sorry i just dont happen to see people armed with guns when im outside walking down the block or in the parking lot at the mall or something. You can think what you want to think. And heres my proof that guns do more harm.

http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/pearlharbor/92/3.html



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Our days are numbered. Live each day to the fullest because there may not be a tomorrow.
 


Posts: 85 | Posted: 09:41 AM on January 1, 2003 | IP
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"how guns do more good than harm when they are the most popular weapon used in homicides and they are the easiest way for teens (or anyone for that matter) to commit suicide"
1)Firearms are used in the US roughly 2.5 million times a year in protection of innocent human life. Over 400,000 are confidently believed to have saved human life. This means that guns are used over 45 times as often to protect human life than to harm it.
2)They are the most popular weapon used in homocide because they are the most convenient. However, as I mentioned above, they do far more good than harm.
3)For suicide guns are commonly used due to their effectiveness. Presumably painless and instant, if done properly, which is damn sight better than many other methods.

"sorry i just dont happen to see people armed with guns when im outside walking down the block or in the parking lot at the mall or something." Hence the "Concealed" in Concealed Carry.

I can't check the movie out right now, but I'll have a response shortly.




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Posts: 202 | Posted: 3:37 PM on January 1, 2003 | IP
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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 08:58 AM on January 1, 2003 :
explain to me pie how guns do more good than harm when they are the most popular weapon used in homicides and they are the easiest way for teens (or anyone for that matter) to commit suicide



When a friends or family buys a gun for someone else who has a criminal record.  This is called a strawman purchase and is illegal.  When one is purchased illegaly form a black market source.

Both ways are already illegal.  Don't you get it.  How can one more restrictive gun law stop it.  Do you just make is "doubley illegal" or "triple-ly illegal" until it is so illegal that is stops?

The best way to stop illegal traffic is very stiff prosecution of these crimes.  When someone illegaly sells a firearm.  They just don't do it once.  But they do it over and over again.

Firearms restriction is not a nation wide cure for depression.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 3:42 PM on January 1, 2003 | IP
Pie

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Ha...ha. Proof? You wish.

"When a gun is present in the home, a marital or sibling dispute can quickly erupt into a homicide. According to a 1994 Bureau of Justice Statistics report, victims in spousal murders were the most likely to have died from gunshot wounds (53%), compared to victims in other types of family murder. In 1996, 13,788 people were killed using firearms and thousands more were seriously injured. " This is simply because guns are the most useable tools for murder. It can have been done with a knife or something else just as easily. I fail to see the point of this.

"Guns are also the weapon of choice for troubled individuals who commit suicide. In 1996, firearms were used in 18,166 suicide deaths in America. Among young people, youths aged 10-19 committed suicide with a gun every six hours. Thatís over 1,300 young people in a single year. " Guns are the best item for doing this, obviously, but there are other methods. You know, it's almost like the guns are being blamed for this. I know how they are living entities, but still. It ain't the guns fault-some one suicidal won't not kill themselves, or attempt to, if they have no weapon.

"A gun in the home also increases the likelihood of an unintentional shooting, particularly among children. " Well, f***in' Duh. This is relevant? It's like saying that countries with no cars in them have less deaths from car crashes than ones that have many cars and have them (crashes) commonly. Duuuuh.

"Unintentional shootings commonly occur when children find an adultís loaded handgun in a drawer or closet, and while playing with it shoot themselves, a sibling or a friend. In 1996, 1,134 people -- many of them children -- were killed accidentally or unintentionally by firearms. " This comes from one of two reasons, and can be solved simply.
1)The idiot parent neglects to teach his kids about guns, then leaves one lying around. Moron syndrome.
2)Kid picks lock on gun, finds hidden gun, ect, shoots self. Also due to lack of edumacation.

Both of these can be ceased effectively through the aforementioned edumacation. If a kid is taught about firearms, and knows what they can do, they will be far less likely to have an accident with them than one who has not. Again," blame the gun" syndrome.

Anything else, or can I dance on your grave?





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Posts: 202 | Posted: 3:50 PM on January 1, 2003 | IP
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heart disease kills more people per year in america then all firearm related killings.  should we come up with burger control?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 8:09 PM on January 1, 2003 | IP
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I can see the rally cry already: "hey, hey, ho, ho cholesterol has got to go" more guns=deterance. " if I try to rob his house, he'll shoot me. If he 'aint home his wife or kid will, 'cause they have been taught how to shoot "


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Posts: 134 | Posted: 01:19 AM on January 2, 2003 | IP
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Yeah it isnt the guns fault its the people. But if guns werent there im sure it wouldnt cause as much harm. Do you honestly think all parents are going to teach their kids about guns? No. So that problems still remains unsolved.


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Posts: 85 | Posted: 08:34 AM on January 2, 2003 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from sourbubblegum at 08:34 AM on January 2, 2003 :
Yeah it isnt the guns fault its the people. But if guns werent there im sure it wouldnt cause as much harm. Do you honestly think all parents are going to teach their kids about guns? No. So that problems still remains unsolved.


that is the problem, most parents are either to damn stupid, or to ignernt to teach their kids about guns.  

but to all those parents out there or future parents that are planning on having guns, please dont just hide them from your kids, teach them how to shoot and you wont have any problems.


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Posts: 270 | Posted: 08:58 AM on January 2, 2003 | IP
sourbubblegum

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If parents teach their kids about guns the kids will probably end up using them for violence and to kill. I have given you proof, i looked up a site online, i dont know what proof you want me to find. i have witnessed more incidents where people have used guns to kill or there was an accident and someone was killed or wounded. i have never witnessed an incident where a gun was used to stop a burglar. I think guns can be used to keep people safe but it happens far less.


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Posts: 85 | Posted: 11:52 AM on January 2, 2003 | IP
fallingupwards84

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ok everyone!! maynard just admitted that kids are not being taught about how to use guns!!! oh wait, in the other "logic" forum he said that kids are smart enough to know how to use guns. so which maynard should we listen to?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:17 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
Pie

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"Do you honestly think all parents are going to teach their kids about guns?" No, but they should.
"If parents teach their kids about guns the kids will probably end up using them for violence and to kill." Actually, if a parent bus their id a gun and teaches them about it, the kid is less likely to commit a crime in life than one who didn't get one.
" I have given you proof, i looked up a site online, i dont know what proof you want me to find" That was hardly proof. See my responses to both falling and you in a few posts prior. Now I know whay gun control suporter are so freakin' ignorant. They don't check anything contrary to their own jaded viewpoints.
"i have never witnessed an incident where a gun was used to stop a burglar." That is because most of em happen in peoples homes. By the by, where do you live? If in the US, please mention the state?
"I think guns can be used to keep people safe but it happens far less." ...2.5 million times a year...about 45 times as often as they  are used to kill...
Didn't I say that already?



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Posts: 202 | Posted: 2:24 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
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Oh, and falling-
Quote by Maynard "who says? †i was 5 years old when i shot my first gun, and i always knew what was real and not to f*** with it. " Tell me, where does he say all kids are smart enough to use guns?


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 2:27 PM on January 2, 2003 | IP
    
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