PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Gun Control Debates
     Schools, Guns, and Facts.

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
Michigan

|     |       Report Post



Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from K8 at 9:40 PM on May 6, 2005 :
I can't believe a country could condone the use and ownership of a deadly weapon in such a way - think about all the shootings in highschools that have gone on! How can you continue to defend such a thing?


It is illegal to commit premeditated murder.

It is illegal to possess a weapon on school grounds.

It is illegal to own a handgun if you are under age eighteen.

It is illegal to sell a handgun to someone under age eighteen.

Yet, we still have shootings in our schools, nearly every day in the US. In Israel, where the facility is required to be armed, there are no attacks on schools... despite the constant threat of Arab terrorism, Hezbollah and Hamas don't attack the schools.

Punish criminals who commit crime, let those of use you want to defend ourselves do so.

You don't want to own a gun, fine, it means less crowds at the shooting range.


 


Posts: 21 | Posted: 4:06 PM on October 2, 2006 | IP
Michigan

|     |       Report Post



Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Of 20 million middle-school and high-school students, fewer than a dozen have killed at school this year. Of 20,000 secondary schools nationwide, only about 10 have reported a murder on campus...

The school shootings by students over the last eight months killed 11 youths and six adults. That is fewer kids than are murdered by parents , and fewer adults than are killed by partners, in just two days of household violence in the United States.

The president struggles to "make sense of the senseless" student shootings. His struggle should expand beyond "youth violence"-- which comprises 13% of violent crime and 8% of murder...On the day of the Jonesboro, Ark, school killings, a Daly City, Calif. mother was arrested for suffocating her three children with duct tape. A few days after the West Paducah, Ky., student shootings, three West Virginia parents were arrested for burning down their house, deliberately immolating five children. The day after the Springfield, Ore. school cafeteria massacre, an Arleta [Calif.] mother was arrested for murdering her two young children and burying them in the national forest.

Recent studies estimate that gunplay at school kills 20 to 30 youths a year, though there is no evidence the toll is higher today than in the past. By contrast studies...show that 2,000-3,000 children and youths are murdered each year by parents or caretakers, a toll that clearly is rising. Annual surveys... report that weapons-related violence in schools is no higher today than in the 1970s. But the rate of children being murdered by their parents doubled during that time.

In response to the school shootings, the president wants to enhance children's safety. But his own agencies' figures show that the best way to do that would be to target the American family. Three of four young murder victims- 90% of them under age 12 and 70% of them aged 12-17 are killed by adults, not by juveniles.

Odds and statistics are of no comfort to those victimized by violence, to be sure. But larger policy, resource allocation and academic analysis should focus on the biggest dangers to kids. The Clinton administration's own agencies have assembled reams of ignored statistics showing that today's teens are being raised by a parent generation displaying exploding rates of domestic violence, property crime, drug offenses, addiction and family instability...
 


Posts: 21 | Posted: 4:07 PM on October 2, 2006 | IP
turrican

|     |       Report Post




Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I always wonder what would have happened if if someone at colombimbine would have been armed to protect those poor kids may they rest in peace.


-------
"Among the misdeeds of the British in India, history shall record the depriving an entire nation of arms as the blackest." Ghandi
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 11:47 PM on October 2, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I always wonder what would've happened if there had been no guns.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 08:15 AM on October 3, 2006 | IP
turrican

|     |       Report Post




Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Dont you get it man. Guns are here. Thats like aysing I wish there was no cars. Its too late. Guns were invented hundreds of years ago. We need to do something about crime. Outlawing cars to prevent speeding doesnt make sense does it? This is the same thing! I cant believe you, I think you are just trying to be difficult for fun. I know you cant possibly be so naive.


-------
"Among the misdeeds of the British in India, history shall record the depriving an entire nation of arms as the blackest." Ghandi
 


Posts: 19 | Posted: 10:20 PM on October 3, 2006 | IP
TRIGGER

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from EMyers at 08:15 AM on October 3, 2006 :
I always wonder what would've happened if there had been no guns.


They would have found another way to do the deed. If you want to kill somone there are a million ways to do it. Take away the gun you only close one avanue but you also throw out the means of self defence cause with a gun size dosn't matter. You can be a 90 lb woman and stop a 350 lb man. The gun is the great equlizer. You would not be able to do the same with a knife.





-------
MACHINE GUNS? go to WWW.hansonshoot.com
 


Posts: 127 | Posted: 10:30 PM on October 3, 2006 | IP
Michigan

|     |       Report Post



Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from EMyers at 08:15 AM on October 3, 2006 :
I always wonder what would've happened if there had been no guns.


Aww. That's just cute. If only there had been no scary inanimate objects, then there would be no murder, crime, or bad guys. Life would be all rainbows and puppy dogs.

In 1990, Julio Gonzales set fire to a New York City nightclub after having a row there with his girlfriend. Eighty-seven people died in the blaze.

In 1948, in a Tokyp suburb, Sadamichi Hirasawa poisoned to death twelve bank workers by cyanide during a robbery.

Sylvestre Matuschka, an Austrian man who apparently derived sexual pleasure from blowing up trains with dynamite, ideally with people in them. His lethal sexual fetish claimed twenty two lives before he was caught in 1932.

Three people - that I know of - have been fatally stabbed during a robbery and/or rape in Michigan this year. (There may be more, but these are the only cases I can recall reading in the paper.)

Humans have been killing each other for a very, very, very long time now. We're quite good at it, really...
 


Posts: 21 | Posted: 07:35 AM on October 4, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Cynicism becomes you.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 6:07 PM on October 4, 2006 | IP
Michigan

|     |       Report Post



Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Am I being cynical, or am I being realistic?

We, humans, have the enviable position at the top of the food chain. Although individuals occasionally fall prey to wild beasts, as a species we are safe, except from ourselves. Being an omnivore of modest size, we got to this privileged position through our use of tools. Tools we use are not limited to guns: as a species, we are defined as tool makers and tool users.

It is also fortunate that most humans are disposed to cooperate with each other. However, the exceptions to that "most" are sufficient to make weapons ownership a necessity for the rest. Human aggression happens on two levels: individual and organized. Let's consider them separately.

Becoming an adult involves learning to respect others and to take responsibility for our own actions. Most people learn those skills and appreciate the values on which peaceful coexistence is predicated. Unfortunately, a minority of people, fewer than 2%, decline to behave in a civilized manner. Civilized behavior, for the purpose of our discussion, could be described as acting humanely towards others even if no punishment would be incurred by acting meanly.

Some of the mean humans are not deterred from harming others by any considerations. Such people are, thankfully, very rare and generally make the news eventually. However, most mean individuals, including those we might consider crazy, behave rationally even if in pursuit of irrational goals. Such people weigh the costs and benefits of their actions and so try to pick victims who cannot fight back.

Here we come to the first benefit of weapons ownership. You may not be armed, but those who would harm you for wanton gratification or for profit have no way of knowing that. Over time, they run a real risk of accidentally attacking an armed person. In that way, general tradition of being able to resist evil affords you some protection by protective mimicry. In nature, a harmless animal would imitate a more formidable species and thus give pause to the would-be predators.

Similarly, predators who select victims based on the expected inability to resist, often desist when even a small number of the expected easy marks give them trouble. For example, where even a few women are known to be armed, all women benefit from the reduction in attempted rapes and other violent crimes. That no external differences indicate which person is defenseless and which isn't makes all of us safer.

No one in their right mind, be they peaceful humans or predators, would enjoy a firefight. Safety of the humans is much improved whenever the predators have to endure combat in order to get what they want, with no guarantee of victory but with a serious risk to their hides. The concept of peace through ability to win a war might sound flippant, but the sentiment is based on reason.

ome say that by the mere ability to resist evil we become the same evil we fight. That view equates initiation of aggression with defense of self and family. In my humble opinion, the two are not equal. Protection of innocents is a noble cause. Failure to plan or failure to act when necessary is not noble, merely irresponsible. It leads to extinction and encourages predators to victimize others besides us.

Being safe does not mean that we should all string barbed wire around our homes, mine the front lawn and sit behind sandbagged windows in anticipation of hostile hordes. Leading righteous, peaceful lives, being good to others, working to improve ourselves and the world would do much to improve our safety. Yet, just as good health doesn't depend on plenty of excercise or a good diet, safety does not depend only on being armed or on being a decent human. Each is an essential component of the whole.

Being armed doesn't mean that we fear our environment. Simply put, being prepared reduces criminal predation to a solved problem. After all, having soap in a bathroom doesn't indicate a paranoid fear of germs, only the recognition of a problem and a ready solution to it. Similarly, carrying a handgun just in case is reasonable. Towing cannon behind your car would be excessive effort relative to the moderate risks we face.

In some minds, guns are linked to murder and other unlawful uses. Yet, they seldom view gasoline, matches, wire, kitchen knives or hobnailed boots as tools of violence. People are familiar with those everyday objects and know that they are not evil magic. The will to kill is the paramount ingredient in homicides. Absent that will, no weapon would lift itself to harm a human.

Conditioning by television or newspapers makes some view every gun as a tragedy in the making. Evening news often show a picture of a gun even when talking about a beating which involved feet and fists. Without a real-world basis for comparison, it is easy to assume that firearms are possessed of supernatural powers. After all, if our understanding of computers was based on Hollywood, wouldn't we all live in fear of killer robots and rogue mainframes?

Judicious use of complex tools separates humans from all other species. To throw away one of our main evolutionary accomplishments out of misguided fear would be akin to wishing away the well-developed brain to make births easier. The loss of functionality to us as human beings would far exceed any potential gain from such a trade.

Humans are tool using creatures, and we are also reasoning, plan making creatures. We recognize the risks around us, and take appropriate precautions:



In Michigan, on average, 15 people per million die due to a fire in there home. Statisically low, but it is not cynicism to purchase smoke alarms and fire extinguishers.

Similarily, in 2004, approximately 6.2 million reported crashes occurred on America's roadways... compared to the estimated 240 million registered passenger vehicles in the United States during the DOT study in the year 2004 this is, agian, a very small number. Yet airbags, seat-belts, antilock breaks, and the like are considered prudent safety measures... not cynicism.

The United States Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) counts five categories of crime as violent crimes: murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault. According to BJS figures, the rate of violent crime victimization in the United States declined by more than half between the years 1994 and 2005.

In 2005, according to this report (here) there were 21 violent crimes per 1,000 people in the US. This means, roughly, that I have a 2% chance of being a victim of such a crime. (This is, admiditdly a quick estimate. Men are much mor elikly than women to be victims, location makes a big difference, et cetra.)

My chances of being a victim of violent crime are slim, but so are my chances of being in a house fire or a drowning accident, yet I still take the nessecary precautions. I purchased and learned to use a fire extinguisher. I was trainned in CPR. I purchased, and trained to use, a handgun.

This is, of course, both my responsiblity and my right.
 


Posts: 21 | Posted: 9:37 PM on October 4, 2006 | IP
JetSunn

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Las Vegas schools are under seige... kids shooting at school buses, students being stabbed in school.  The school system in Las Vegas, Nevada is outta control

Even the Chief of Police in Las Vegas is resigning cuz its uncontrollable.  Gangs in Vegas are in control of Las Vegas.  Gangs roving the Strip attacking innocent tourists.

Las Vegas is a city under seige.  When will the US ARMY come rescue Vegas?
 


Posts: 42 | Posted: 2:43 PM on October 5, 2006 | IP
Michigan

|     |       Report Post



Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from JetSunn at 2:43 PM on October 5, 2006 :
Las Vegas schools are under seige... kids shooting at school buses, students being stabbed in school.  The school system in Las Vegas, Nevada is outta control

Even the Chief of Police in Las Vegas is resigning cuz its uncontrollable.  Gangs in Vegas are in control of Las Vegas.  Gangs roving the Strip attacking innocent tourists.

Las Vegas is a city under seige.  When will the US ARMY come rescue Vegas?


I can't claim any firsthand knowledgeof the problems in Nevada, but, according to Article I, Section 11 of the Constitution:

Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.


As for the US Military coming "to the rescue." First, as a matter of law they can not act as a police force. The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed in 1878, generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or an act of Congress.

It is an extremely dangerous thing, in a republic, to give the military law enforcement authority. Just ask the people of Thailand, Germany, the former Soviet Union, Iraq, or a little out-of-the-way place called Rome.

Not to mention, the police and the military haveno duty to save you from an attacker! Police exist to uphold the law. Although cops try to protect people from criminal predation, it is an incidental part of their job. Numerous court decisions have absolved police from liability for failure to protect individuals. Even with the best intentions, police officers are too few to be everywhere they are needed at once.


 


Posts: 21 | Posted: 07:46 AM on October 6, 2006 | IP
K8

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Give someone the right to own a gun and they're more likely to become a criminal than someone without one, pure and simple. Murder, manslaughter, assault, harassment - these are all crimes and guns make them simple to commit, whether you mean to or not. Give someone the right to own 40 guns, and this likelihood increases, well, 4 times 10-fold, i guess. And no, i need no statistics to back up this statement - common-sense on its own will tell you its true.

You want guns for defence? Try locking your doors and windows, get a dog/alarm system/panic room or all of the above - prevention is the key, not guns. Don't make yourseves into potential killers due to your own often exaggerated fears.

You want guns for recreation? Store your recreational guns at the places you use them or hire them from the same places (i.e. your shooting ranges). And, although i believe hunting to be completely unnecessary and barbaric, if you must do it have your guns stored away from your homes (e.g. a gun shop) and only take them out when you intend to use them recreationally.

You want guns to protect you from your own government? First of all, stop being so paranoid - its a democracy. The entire point of you living in a d-e-m-o-c-r-a-t-i-c society is the fact that you, the people, are given the power to vote your governments in and also vote them out. So get real and pull yourself out of the misconception that you owning a gun or 50 makes any difference as to how your government functions. Have your say and vote - if you don't trust your government, vote them out.

You want guns because its your "constitutional right"? Stop making excuses and get a grip on reality - the 2nd amendment was written back in desperate times...times far different to today. Trust me, the British aren't coming for you anymore - they've moved on, and so should you.

That's all i have to say - thank you for reading.
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 07:00 AM on October 9, 2006 | IP
Michigan

|     |       Report Post



Junior Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from K8 at 07:00 AM on October 9, 2006 :
Give someone the right to own a gun and they're more likely to become a criminal than someone without one, pure and simple. Murder, manslaughter, assault, harassment - these are all crimes and guns make them simple to commit, whether you mean to or not. Give someone the right to own 40 guns, and this likelihood increases, well, 4 times 10-fold, i guess. And no, i need no statistics to back up this statement - common-sense on its own will tell you its true.


You may not want to use statistics to back up your statement... but please allow me to use some to refute it.

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report(1999) the total homicide rate and firearm homicide rates for the US are:

Population: 272,691,000
Total Homicide:5.70 (per 100,000)
Firearm Homicide:3.72 (per 100,000)
Non-Gun Homicide:1.98 (per 100,000)
% Households With Guns:39.0%

Now, if we look at Criminal Statistics, England and Wales (1997) complied by the UK equivilent agency:

Population: 51,429,000
Total Homicide:1.41 (per 100,000)
Firearm Homicide:0.11 (per 100,000)
Non-Gun Homicide:1.30 (per 100,000)
% Households With Guns:4.7%

This would seem to lend weight to your theory. More guns in the US, more firearm homicides... indeed, more homicides in general. But that is in only two of the kingdoms that make up the United Kingdom... we're forgetting North Ireland and Scotland:

North Ireland:

Population: 1,641,711
Total Homicide:6.09 (per 100,000)
Firearm Homicide:5.24 (per 100,000)
Non-Gun Homicide:0.85 (per 100,000)
% Households With Guns:8.4%

Far fewer guns (and virtually no handguns at all) and the firearm homicide rate is greater than the United States.

Taiwan, with very restrictive gun ownership (although I couldn't find exact figures) also outpaces the US:

Population: 21,979,444
Total Homicide:8.12   (per 100,000)
Firearm Homicide:0.97 (per 100,000)
Non-Gun Homicide:7.15 (per 100,000)
% Households With Guns:not available

Quote from K8 at 07:00 AM on October 9, 2006 :You want guns for defence? Try locking your doors and windows, get a dog/alarm system/panic room or all of the above - prevention is the key, not guns. Don't make yourseves into potential killers due to your own often exaggerated fears.


Windows and doors can be broken, attack dogs are dangerous to children and strangers. Guns are not... I have to drawn, aim, and fire my gun... my dog can simply attack of her own free will. Between 15 and 20 die per year from dog bits. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face.

A firearm is not inherently dangerous, if proper safety rules are followed. There are very few accidental deaths cause by guns in any given year, in point of fact, your bathtub is more likly to kill a child than a firearm:

Deaths Due to Unintentional Injuries, 2000 (Estimates)
(Chart compiled by me. Source of data, National Safety Council, Injury Facts, 2001 Edition, pp. 8-9, 84)

Firearms Accidents
0-4: 20
5-14: 60
15-24: 150
25+: 370
Total: 600

Drowning Accidents
0-4: 450
5-14: 350
15-24: 700
25+: 2,400
Total: 3,900

'Suffocation by ingested object' Accidents
0-4: 100
5-14: 20
15-24: 30
25+: 3,250
Total: 3,400

Quote from K8 at 07:00 AM on October 9, 2006 :You want guns for recreation? Store your recreational guns at the places you use them or hire them from the same places (i.e. your shooting ranges). And, although i believe hunting to be completely unnecessary and barbaric, if you must do it have your guns stored away from your homes (e.g. a gun shop) and only take them out when you intend to use them recreationally.


Actually, I don't hunt... this is not because I find it more wholesome to eat meat that was killed by someone else. But rather, as comedian Bill Engval quipped, "its really early in the morning, and really cold, and I don't wanna go."

I do enjoy target practice, which I look at more as a practical matter then as simple recreation... But, I guess if we were to consider a basketball player who is running laps "recreation" then we shoudl consider marksmanship practice "recreation" too.

But, we don't require basketball players or baseball players to leave their ball at the gym. We don't ask equstrian riders to leave their horse at the track. We don't expect a landscape painter to only paint at the art suply shop.

My firearms are my private property, and I'll store them where I want to, thank you very much. Of course, we also have the simple fact that a gun in the safe doesn't keep you safe when you get attacked by a rapist.

Quote from K8 at 07:00 AM on October 9, 2006 :You want guns to protect you from your own government? First of all, stop being so paranoid - its a democracy. The entire point of you living in a d-e-m-o-c-r-a-t-i-c society is the fact that you, the people, are given the power to vote your governments in and also vote them out. So get real and pull yourself out of the misconception that you owning a gun or 50 makes any difference as to how your government functions. Have your say and vote - if you don't trust your government, vote them out.


Actually, I don't have any fear of my government... Oh, I'm afraid they'll waste my taxes on stupid projects, I'm afraid they'll spend $14 billion on a study that says they spend too much on studies, and other horse-waste like that... but I have no real fear of my government being a physical threat.

That said, in 1920 my grandfather's brothers had no fear of their government being a threat. (Hell, one had been a Sergeant in the Army in WWI, and was both pretty popular guys around town.) Of course, in only a few short decades the government had radically shifted... and one died on the train to a "work camp" the other simply vanished.

Now, the chances of this ever happening in the U.S. are so remote as tro not even be worth considering. But, it was a possibility allowed for by the founders of our nation.

Quote from K8 at 07:00 AM on October 9, 2006 :You want guns because its your "constitutional right"? Stop making excuses and get a grip on reality - the 2nd amendment was written back in desperate times...times far different to today. Trust me, the British aren't coming for you anymore - they've moved on, and so should you.


The Second Amendment was written in 1789, and finally adopted by all the States in 1791. The Revolution was ended, for all intents and purposes, after the surrender at Yorktown in 1781. This was not a "desperate time" in the United States... well, at least nto as far as forgreign threats are concerned, there had been a few armed revolts among the people of the States (Shay's Rebellion, Whiskey Riots, etc.)

Furthermore, the Bill of Rights is only one half of the equation. Article I, Section 6 of the Michigan Constitution states, unambigously, that:

Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.

This was written in 1963. Hardly a long forgotten prehistoric time... Heck, I have blue jeans older than this document. The Michigan constitution has been rewritten numerous times in the past 150 years, but this clause has appeared in everyone of them.

Finally, I would like you to remember that we do not derive our rights from the Constitution, nor are they given to us by the government. They are inherent to us, they are inaleinable, and they are limitless... The Bill of Rights does not limit the people, it limits the government.

I respect your wish not to own a firearm, but I can not understand why you wish to see 110,000,000 Americans punished for excercising a simple human right... if you do not wish to own a firearm for self defense, fine by me. But, I want to protect myself, my child, and my neighbors the most effective way possible. 110 million Americans own guns, almost none of them are criminals.

Punish people who break the law, leave the rest of us alone.


 


Posts: 21 | Posted: 11:29 AM on October 9, 2006 | IP
TRIGGER

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Actualy there was a study done in Texas recently, sorry I don't have the piticulars but it showed that a person that is a legal gun owner is 12 times less likely to commit a crime than the general public. Meaning the general public is 1200% more likely to commit a crime than a legal gun owner....  


-------
MACHINE GUNS? go to WWW.hansonshoot.com
 


Posts: 127 | Posted: 09:53 AM on October 15, 2006 | IP
RKBA

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I have been lurking for a short time and what I have seen posted has driven me to register on this site. I am genuinely amazed at some of the postings in this thread.

First and foremost is why some of you want to take my rights away. As the previous post stated I am 12 times less likely to commit a crime as an armed citizen. Why can't I carry my licensed and concealed weapon for the possible defense of myself and my family? I have sensed a bit of projection here as some seem to be of the mind set that if they had a gun they may not be able to handle the resposibility. Therefore nobody should own a gun because "I" am not comfortable with it. Just leave my rights alone! If you don't want a gun fine. I am not particularly afraid but I am prepared. My neighbors suffered a home invasion by intruders with knives and did nothing but succomb to the theives. They both lived but not after being tied up and taunted with the weapons the thieves had. If I have the option to carry a gun and protect myself from some possible and similar event why should I not choose that option? I know the odds of something such as that happening to me are very slim but isn't it better to be safe than sorry?

For the record I have an FFL and deal guns out of my house. For the poster that suggested that we keep our firearms locked up at the places we use them; what would you suggest I do with mine. I have various semi-auto AK-47's, AR-15's, shotguns, pistols. Technicaly they are not mine but rather the property of my company since they have not been sold and no paper work has been done to issue them to a buyer. I do own several of them however(in my personal name).

On a final note as for the matter of safety. The firearm is only as dangerous as the person whom handles it. My wife is thoroughly familiar with all of my pistols but chooses not to bother herself with guns in general. Good for her. At least she has an adult attitude towards them, ie....she understands the proper handling and function and if needed could use one. Enough said for her. My son(you're going to love this one) is 9 y/o and keeps his ruger 10/22 scoped rifle in his room. I do keep control of the ammo though. He knows where the ammo is and when and when not to access it. Before any of you scream in terror. I was raised the exact same way only had my first gun at 7. The mystery is gone for him. Half of the time he does not even go to the range with me. He is just not fascinated with them. He knows it is a tool not a toy. Oh forgot to add there is a trigger lock on his rifle but he has never opened the case without my presence. Much like real life; education is the key.

FLAME SUIT ON!!! FIRE AWAY!!!!


-------
Support your local FFL dealer!
Buy a gun!
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 11:43 PM on October 16, 2006 | IP
crunker

|      |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from EMyers at 08:15 AM on October 3, 2006 :
I always wonder what would've happened if there had been no guns.



Explosives would be used, but that's besides the point.

Guns exist, criminals will use them.

Criminals do not care about following laws, that's why they're criminals.
Therefore, if criminals don't care about following laws, what makes you think they'll follow gun laws?

 


Posts: 10 | Posted: 4:59 PM on December 1, 2006 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

By that standard of reasoning, we should have no laws.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 10:38 PM on December 1, 2006 | IP
quatin

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

We have reactive laws. The law is there as means to punish you for something you have done, not prevent you from doing something. That's why law enforcement won't arrest people unless they have broken a law.

When it comes to gun control, the argument becomes do we want to have a preventative law for assault with a weapon? Are you content knowing that if someone assaults/murders you with a weapon they will be punished for it? Or do you want to have a preventative measure to deal with the situation? Both anti-gun and pro-gun groups want preventative measures.

The irony of the anti-gun group is that they are not addressing assault with a weapon, they are addressing assault with a GUN. The reality is that almost anything can be a weapon or made into a weapon. Controlling weapons is a futile gesture to prevent assault with a weapon, but is more concurrent with REDUCING weapons to be used for an assault.

The pro-gun group states by arming everyone, it is a deterent to ASSAULT. True you are arming criminals and citizens alike, but you guarantee that they are on equal grounds if they meet.

So, the question is now an argument on human nature. Will people stop assaulting each other knowing that everyone has an equal potential or will people stop assaulting each other knowing that they won't have a gun to do it with?
 


Posts: 86 | Posted: 11:47 AM on December 5, 2006 | IP
SilverStar

|        |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

O boy! I feel some much safer knowing that if some nut case decided that my time has come to an end that he will sit in jail for 30 years.


-------
Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 11:19 PM on January 7, 2007 | IP
TRIGGER

|     |       Report Post




Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from SilverStar at 11:19 PM on January 7, 2007 :
O boy! I feel some much safer knowing that if some nut case decided that my time has come to an end that he will sit in jail for 30 years.


Where are you from? In my state it's 10 and if you kind'a behave you'll be out in 5 unless you kill in self defence then you get life...





-------
MACHINE GUNS? go to WWW.hansonshoot.com
 


Posts: 127 | Posted: 4:54 PM on January 9, 2007 | IP
SilverStar

|        |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It was wishful thinking. I'd have felt so much better if he sat in prison for another 20 years. Not that that'll do me much good. Even if the death penalty was used in every murder case, it wouldn't help my serious case of being dead.


-------
Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 8:53 PM on January 9, 2007 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.