PRO

Where Your Ideas can change Minds

Please visit our new forum at

http://www.4forums.com

CON


YouDebate.com Forum
» back to YouDebate.com
Register | Profile | Log In | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Board Rules | Search | FAQ |
Custom Search
» You are not logged in.   log in | register

  YouDebate.com Forum
   Gun Control Debates
     The problem with guns

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

    
gunmyths

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
0

Rate this post:

The problem with guns is that they make it easier to kill people. In the US, thanks to our good old second amendment, you are more likely to face a criminal who has a gun. I'd rather deal with criminals who don't have guns. In places like Japan, Australia, and England the gun crime rate is only a very small fraction of the gun crime rate in the US. That's because their gun control laws are effective and prevent most criminals from obtaining guns. If a criminal has a gun then someone is more likely to get killed because guns make it easier to kill. If you disagree with me, honestly ask youself this question, would you rather face a criminal who has a gun or a criminal who doesn't have a gun?
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 12:49 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I do get tired of this....
1)It is illegal for criminals to own firearms.
2)In those countrys look at the overall murder rates, not just those with firearms, Gun crime in England is skyrocketing, even so the criminals are facing a disarmed public and thus don't really need guns(I could have worded that better).  A knife will do nicely.
3)I would rather face an unarmed criminal, but criminals will always have guns if they want them? Ever hear of the black market? Ever notice how "well" we keep drugs out of the hands of dealers and addicts? Duuuuh....


-Pie
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:13 AM on December 8, 2002 | IP
gunmyths

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I'd rather face criminals with knives than criminals with guns anyday. Research shows that you are much more likely to survive a knife attack than a gun attack. Guns are more deadly weapons than knives and therefore more guns leads to a higher homicide rate. I have looked at the homicide rates. The US has a higher homicide rate than England, Australia, and Japan. If criminals are able to obtain guns if they want to then why are so few criminals able to obtain guns in the places like England and Japan? Their gun crime rate is much lower than the US because very few criminals are able to obtain guns in those countries. There simply isn't very much of a black market for guns in those countries. If the statement is true that "If we outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns" then it is ironic that countries which restrict guns the most have the least amount of outlaws owning guns. I've heard the arguments you present a million times.

(Edited by gunmyths 12/9/2002 at 01:02 AM).
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 1:01 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Maynard

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from gunmyths at 1:01 PM on December 8, 2002 :
I'd rather face criminals with knives than criminals with guns anyday. Research shows that you are much more likely to survive a gun attack than a knife attack.


so you are saying you would rather a criminal with a knife so you can get killed right?  

maybe we need more people like you.

(Edited by Maynard 12/8/2002 at 5:08 PM).


-------
I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 5:02 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
gunmyths

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Research shows that you are more likely to survive a knife attack than a gun attack.

(Edited by gunmyths 12/9/2002 at 01:03 AM).
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 7:47 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Pie

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

KILLINGS IN THE U.S.  
Los Angeles is leading the nation's metropolitan cities in total number of homicides. Numbers are year-to-date through Nov. 20, 2002.  
City  Homocides  Population  Per 100,000  
Los Angeles  592  3.6 million  16.44  
New York  489  8.0 million  6.11  
Chicago  485  2.8 million  17.32  
Detroit  346  1.0 million  34.60  
Philadelphia  251  1.5 million  16.73  
LA, New York and Chicago have some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the US, and this has clearly done nothing to help their crime rates.




-------
A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 9:18 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
Pie

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Taken from GunCite ...

Arbitrary Comparisons Between Countries

The U.S. has a high gun murder rate, whereas a country like England with strict gun controls has almost no gun murders and a very low murder rate. Doesn't this show that gun control is effective in reducing murder rates? Not exactly. Prior to having any gun controls, England already had a homicide rate much lower than the United States (Guns, Murders, and the Constitution: A Realistic Assessment of Gun Control, Don B. Kates Jr.). Japan is another country typically cited (see Japanese Gun Control, by David B. Kopel). (Briefly discussing the difference in homicide rates between England and the U.S. is Clayton Cramer's, Variations in California Murder Rates: Does Gun Availability Cause High Murder Rates?)

Gun control opponents can play similar games. The Swiss with 7 million people have hundreds of thousands of fully-automatic rifles in their homes (see GunCite's "Swiss Gun Laws") and the Israelis, until recently, have had easy access to guns (see this Jerusalem Post article for Israeli firearms regulations or a briefer summary here). Both countries have low homicide rates. Likewise this doesn't mean more guns less crime.

The U.S. has a higher non-gun murder rate than many European country's total murder rates. On the other hand, Taiwan, the Philippines, and Mexico have non-gun murder rates in excess of our total murder rate.

Incidentally in 13th century Europe, several studies have estimated homicide rates in major cities to be around 60 per 100,000. (Even back then, the equivalent of coroners, kept records.)

There are many, many factors, some much more prominent than gun availability that influence homicide rates and crime in general. (See this excerpt from 1997 FBI Uniform Crime Report and GunCite's "Is Gun Ownership Correlated with Violent Deaths?")

Due to the many confounding factors that arise when attempting international comparisons, this approach would appear to hold little promise for determining the influence of gun levels (or handgun availability) on violence rates.



-------
A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 9:20 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I would very much like to see a society with unarmed felons.  The reality is a determined attacker can take your life with a pointy stick.  If I have to defend my life, I do not want a fair fight.  I want all the advantage on my side.

Do you want to defend yourself hand to hand with a felon on parole?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:42 PM on December 8, 2002 | IP
gunmyths

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It is often argued that places like New York and Los Angeles have a high  crime rate and strict gun control laws. If you can't obtain a gun in one of those cities, then you can just travel to another state and buy a gun. Gun-control laws have to be nationwide to be truly effective. Let's look at two countries in which gun control laws have led to a lower crime rate.
"Two years ago in the United Kingdom, civilian handguns were banned, bought back from their owners and destroyed. In the year following the law change, Scotland recorded a 17% drop in all firearm-related offences. The British Home Office reports that in the nine months following the handgun ban, firearm-related offences in England and Wales dropped by 13%."
Australia likewise has experienced significant decreases in crime after tougher gun control laws were enacted.
"The Institute of Criminology report Australian Crime - Facts and Figures 1999 includes 1998 homicide data showing 'a 9% decrease from the rate in 1997.' This is the period in which most of the country's new gun laws came into force."
Click on the link below to view the source.



Guns Laws in Australia and England

(Edited by gunmyths 12/9/2002 at 01:00 AM).

(Edited by gunmyths 12/9/2002 at 01:01 AM).
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 12:59 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Pie

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You say that people can travel to states with less gun control and purchase guns, then smuggle them in. True. But...ever wonder why they don't use them in the areas they purchase em?


-------
A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 01:14 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Pie

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

And  


Australian Crime Rates

(Edited by Pie 12/9/2002 at 01:23 AM).


-------
A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 01:19 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Pie

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Also

Englands Crime Rate


-------
A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 01:25 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

"Gun-control laws have to be nationwide to be truly effective."

I don't care about effective gun-control laws.  I want to be protected from that violent felon standing 5 feet away with a knife.  I want a gun when that felon is trying to stab me with a knife.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:52 AM on December 9, 2002 | IP
Maynard

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from gunmyths at 12:59 AM on December 9, 2002 :
It is often argued that places like New York and Los Angeles have a high  crime rate and strict gun control laws. If you can't obtain a gun in one of those cities, then you can just travel to another state and buy a gun. Gun-control laws have to be nationwide to be truly effective.


there is another issue than jsut people killed by guns.  it is the freedom of people.  once there becomes a federally mandated gun control law then, they are going to force that all guns must be registered, then that stupid ballistic fingerprinting crap, then no handguns, then seizures of all guns, then throwing many patriotis americans in jail or killing them because they are not following the law, then what.  what will the next thing they find that you have that is not safe, your car, your computer.  

if there is a nation wide gun control, you can kiss all you freedoms goodbye, if not for you then for your children, or children's children.  and its the idiots like gunmyth and fallingupwards that cant see past their own little liberal lifes.

enough rant for this post.




-------
I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 10:12 PM on December 9, 2002 | IP
gunmyths

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Maynard writes, "and its the idiots like gunmyth and fallingupwards that cant see past their own little liberal lifes." Maynard, you ought to learn to respect people who have a different point of view than you.  There is a difference between mindless bashing and intelligent criticism.

(Edited by gunmyths 12/10/2002 at 01:46 AM).
 


Posts: 60 | Posted: 01:40 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
madbilly

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

all you gun haters do me a favor...i will give you one hundred dollars via paypal if you can go to www.tednugent.com....find his forums and then beat him in a debate on gun control. People such as Ted Nugent know exactly all the stats and court cases and common reasoning that will shut every person who dare oppose gun rights down. I gurantee you can never ever evere ever beat this person, no one has and no one can...he shuts everyone down on talk radio...he did just the other night on the Shawn Hennedy show when they suprised the president of some anti gun group with ted being on the show also....the guy was shut down so bad that he stormed out of the radio station and swore never to come back while cussing up a storm.


-------
my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 04:47 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

yeah and he's prolly a member of the NRA and has been brainwashed and fed alot of lies


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 09:39 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

i would like to apologize on behalf of gunmyths and myself for disagreeing with Maynard. how stupid of me! we should have known that if we disagree with him then that means that we automatically become "idiots". i am so sorry for thinking for myself.


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 09:41 AM on December 10, 2002 | IP
Maynard

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Quote from fallingupwards84 at 09:41 AM on December 10, 2002 :
i would like to apologize on behalf of gunmyths and myself for disagreeing with Maynard. how stupid of me! we should have known that if we disagree with him then that means that we automatically become "idiots". i am so sorry for thinking for myself.



your right, i try to not to stoop to calling names just because someone doesnt agree with me, it is not very mature and is not a sufficient method to get my point across so i apoligize to fallingupwards and gunmyth for my imaturity.  



-------
I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 2:31 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
Pie

|       |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

falling-real facts and stats are lies? This is new to me.


-------
A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 8:20 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
Maynard

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

fallingupwards, you should try the NUGE...he'll tear you a new one.  


-------
I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 9:18 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
madbilly

|      |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

thats what i said...and falling i will say that you are brainwashed by liberal propaganda against guns just as you say he is brainwashed by the NRA.


-------
my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 11:30 PM on December 10, 2002 | IP
thistownwilleatu

|       |       Report Post



Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

actually i am not brainwashed by any liberal stuff, cuz i am surrounded by ultra-conservatives all around me. My parents, my church, other members of my family, etc...


-------
"The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices." - Thomas Merton

"I thank my God for every remembrance of you." - Paul
 


Posts: 341 | Posted: 03:29 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

|       |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

excuse me but that last post was actually made by me. i was using thistown's computer and forgot to log his name off


-------
i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 03:38 AM on December 11, 2002 | IP
JFriday

|     |       Report Post




Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

[b]Quote from gunmyths at 12:59 AM
"Two years ago in the United Kingdom, civilian handguns were banned, bought back from their owners and destroyed. In the year following the law change, Scotland recorded a 17% drop in all firearm-related offences. The British Home Office reports that in the nine months following the handgun ban, firearm-related offences in England and Wales dropped by 13%."


I love these numbers from the Home Office of the U.K.
Firearms Offences (homicide,robbery,home invasion, anything you can do wrong with a gun)
1997: 12,410
2001: 17589
+ 5,179 or 41.7%
That doesnt seem to support gun control maybe if you were saying that gun control is good becuase it will bring a dramatic increase in crime then you have a point, we just differ on what would be good for the country.  I am currently digging up some numbers on Austrialia but it is taking awhile those numbers(U.K.) were pretty hard to find.  I ask that you not take it from me but go look yourself.
www.homeoffice.gov.uk
that is where I got my numbers
From the same website you can see that over 26% of the population in the U.K. are victims of violent crime thats better than a 1/4 chance.
Even their minister of Justice Jim Wallace has had violent crime touch his life, his wife and daughters have been mugged outside their home and sexually assaulted. That would be like John Ashcroft's wife getting mugged. Now he has more private security but the average subject of the U.K. cant afford it.  



-------
I pledge allegiance...
 


Posts: 11 | Posted: 10:07 AM on February 18, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Let's forget statistics for a moment and think reality.  Consider this event:

It's 5:00 in the morning, I've just left for work and the two guys down the block know when I leave.  They make their way to my house and coem in the front door.  My dog barks at them so one of them kicks him hard and breaks bones so he winds up helplessly whimpering in a corner.  A knife wielding psycho orders my crying nine and ten year olds back to their bedroom and tells them to shut the F* up or else.  

Both men make their way to my bedroom.  My wife has dialed 911 when she heard the commotion and she is asked the nature of her emergency.  That's all the time she has.  She sees in the nightlight a face with a leather mask and the flash of a buckknife and hears "drop the phone bitch!"  

She does.  She grabs the .357 revolver I leave next to her bedside and fires straight into the attacker, blasting a nice chunk out of him.  The other guy realizes he's in deep doo doo so he makes for the door.  The first guy lunges angrily and catches two more bullets in his body as he land on the bed, his stinking breath in her face, his knife ripping a chunk out of the quilt.  She puts the gun square between his eyes and yells in anger, pulling the trigger.  His nasty enraged look will never be seen again and his cowardly buddy who was out for a good time is pounding gravel back home.

My wife lives, my kids live, and she is not the victim of another rape.  Where are the cops?  Yelling "maam?  Maam are you there?"  as bullets take chunks out of the thug they could not save her from.  

You'll never stop murder, never stop accidents, never stop criminals from being criminals, but you can stop yourself from being a victim.  I hate gun control.


*"Your bat, my gun, we'll see who wins."  -Sammy The Bull Gravano.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:05 PM on September 26, 2003 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

If only police officers and people in the military and stuff were allowed to have guns and the rest weren't allowed to, wouldnt that be better? Since.. there are so many psycho people in the world and not everyone knows who is who. If we only let people who absolutly needed guns to have them, we wouldn't need to worry about if someone is going to break into my house, or rob us on the sidewalk. [color=fuchsia][size=null]
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 8:14 PM on January 14, 2004 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

You would be right except for the fact that all the gun control laws in the world won't take away guns from criminals, because the guns that they own are ILLEGAL. As somebody pointed out before, there will always be a black market for guns the same way there is for drugs. If the governement took away guns from law-obiding citizens, criminals would be able to victimize people without the risk of being shot, or any other such consequence. People could not defend themselves from criminals who would still have their ILLEGAL guns.

Did you a know that guns are used about two million times per year in self-defense. 98% of the time, just bradishing the gun is enough to detain the criminal or make him run away. In all 31 states that allow people to carry concealed firearms, violent crime has decreased. Washington DC, the murder capitol of the country, has the strictest gun control laws.

When somebody says that you're 58% more likely to be killed with a gun by                        
an  "aquantance" than anybody else, "aquantance" includes rival gang memebers, drug dealers and buyers, pimps, cabbies killled by someone they just picked up, clients for prostities, ect. The term is extremely broad.



 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 02:26 AM on January 28, 2004 | IP
BETTYBOOP

|      |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

HOW DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CRIMINAL AND SOMEONE WHO IS'NT. I KNOW PEOPLE THAT YOU MIGHT THINK ARE GOOD PEOPLE BUT THEY HAVE SHOT PEOPLE AND KILLED THEM. SOME EXAMPLES ARE,COP,MILITARY PEOPLE CITIZENS TRYING TO PROTECT THERE HOMES. NOW TELL ME HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO IS WHO SMART---


-------
BETTYBOOP
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 01:49 AM on February 10, 2004 | IP
Guest

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Bettyboop,
  What the hell are you talking about? What do you mean "How do you tell if someone is smart?". If you are stating that cops and military personel are bad people then you do not deserve the freedom that they protect. Your comment has absolutely no relevance to anything and is just an outright childish statement. Please do not post such crap again.
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:13 PM on February 10, 2004 | IP
Serevok

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
+1

Rate this post:

Bettyboop... Your post is inspiring... all I can say is wow... wait no... make that WOW! I see the error of my ways... what America really needs are more intelligent and morally sound people such as yourself.... How silly of us. Police and military personell are actually BAD and STUPID for risking their lives to keep you safe...  and we might THINK they are good people by risking their lives to keep us from being harmed, but they are actually all the spawn of evil. HEY! on a completely unrelated subject its really fun if you mix chlorox and ammonia... take a big sniff for jesus XD
 


Posts: 8 | Posted: 10:41 AM on April 12, 2005 | IP
Relic

|     |       Report Post




Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I haven't read all of this thread and I don't have to.

There is no problem with guns; there is a problem with humanity.

Guns are just another way for men to kill each other. Once you people realize that man is innately violent, you will realize that these arguments are pointless.

And if any of you say "Man isn't inherently violent" consider this. Video games and other forms of entertainment are the top grossing products of their industry because they appeal to a primal instinct of man.

As to the stupid people comments: THERE IS NO MORE INTELLIGENCE IN THE WORLD!!! NONE!!! Work in the customer service game as long as i have and you will realize that the sum of human intelligence is on a rapid decline.
SOME ONE SUED McDonalds BECAUSE THERE WAS NO WARNING THAT THE COFFEE SHE SPILT ON HERSELF WAS HOT!!! Common sense is dead, and so is god.

Edit, addition to the comment above.
I am in no way saying that I am intellegent, I'm as dumb as everyone esle, but I know that I am, and accept that fact.

Cops and Military personal: You cannot accuse these men of being stupid because these men are, as Serevok stated, protecting our rights and liberties with THEIR lives. Not to mention they only use their guns when absolutely necessary.

If you don't like the way things are, either work to change them, don't sit on some web site and fadelessly bash them... Or move to Canada

You want to ban guns, fine. I know 2 diffrent ways to kill am man with a spoon. Anything in the hands of a human being is a weapon, plain and simple.


(Edited by Relic 4/12/2005 at 10:55 AM).

(Edited by Relic 4/12/2005 at 11:13 AM).


-------
There is no such thing as 'unnatrual death' all death is natural, how ever the cause.
Icurus. What are you saying little man, you don't like Zep? - Brock Samson
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 10:52 AM on April 12, 2005 | IP
wayneinFL

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:


"I'd rather face criminals with knives than criminals with guns anyday."


Personally, I'd rather not face criminals at all. However, I don't live in a perfect world. I'd rather  face a criminal armed with a knife, with a gun. Those of you who choose to go unarmed can take your chances.

"Research shows that you are much more likely to survive a knife attack than a gun attack."

Hmmm.... what are the statistics for knife attacks? And where did you get that? Seriously, I'm curious to know. I've read that 80% of people shot with handguns  survive, but that's only among those who have actually been shot.





-------
wayneinFL
 


Posts: 7 | Posted: 1:31 PM on May 14, 2005 | IP
Five Seven

|      |       Report Post




Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Comparing the crime rates of America and England is a fallacy, as both have different systems when it comes to listing gun crime.

England only records a gun crime if the guilty party is found, whereas america recors it regardless of whether or not the murder is solved. Englands crime rate is far higher that statistics show.

England itself experienced a 14% increase in gun crime during the 90's, when a series of draconian gun control regulations were passed.

Austalia experienced an increase in crime of literally over 100% after the government all but banned the private posession on firearms.

Your logic can easily be refuted by the fact that just four american cities, all of which have all but outlawed the private posession of handguns, and have extremely strict regulation regarding the posession of rifles and shorguns, make up over 20% of the nations crime rate.

(Edited by Five Seven 9/10/2005 at 4:59 PM).
 


Posts: 11 | Posted: 4:59 PM on September 10, 2005 | IP
Ivanhoe

|     |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

And that alone should indicate something, to those who choose to see it whether or not it violates their idea of the world as a whole. *sigh*

Just to add some fuel to the debate concerning guns, I would suggest reading through this below:

Gun Laws do Not Reduce Criminal Violence According to New Study - Fraser Institute - Canada

This however, is mainly a outline of what the full publication is, that of which also can be found on that page. Its not broad as to include Europe as a whole, but mainly crime in several Commonwealth nations.

Now, even if this violates someone's view of the world as they want it to be, I would still recommend they read it.

Now, if anyone cares to visit the Dept. of Justice site, or the FBI's website, you should find a graph detailing a overall good drop in crime over the last 30 years, that is still continuing to drop now and is predicted to do so in the future.

As compared to RISING rates elsewhere, the US has a DECREASING rate.

Whether or not the US has, at the moment, more crime overall then any of these nations do is somewhat irrelevant in light of the fact that rates are indicating a change.

If another nation's rates are going up, and yet anothers are going down, obviously there is a change going on, and what is causing that change is what we should focus on, rather then the tunnel vision view of looking only at national percentages and rates.
 


Posts: 1 | Posted: 5:21 PM on September 10, 2005 | IP
Harlan Peppa

|      |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Using a gun on someone is illegal.  So outlawing guns is just redundant.

It would make more sense to ban murder.

Wait—


-------
Socialism is at the point of a gun.
 


Posts: 6 | Posted: 6:41 PM on September 10, 2005 | IP
coolcodemn3

|       |       Report Post



Newbie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

you are trying to take something away that cant be taken away, and stats show when people restrict or take them away crime goes up. read the book More Guns Less Crime, it shows you all the stats. And i think if the government actually does try to take the guns away there will be another civil war

(Edited by admin 11/6/2005 at 04:35 AM).


-------
cheese
 


Posts: 2 | Posted: 03:05 AM on November 6, 2005 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

I look at it this way.   If a guy pulls a gun on me then I need to A) have my gun on me and B) be able to draw and fire faster than he can fire (not likely, no matter how good I am).  If a guy pulls a knife on me he needs to be able to throw it really well to hit a running, zig-zagging target  and if he misses the idiot just disarmed himself.   The whole idea behind a "disarmed" public (England, etc.) is that if there are fewer purchasers of guns, then fewer guns eventually make it out to the "ne'er-do-wells" in the first place.  And if I know I'm not going to face a gun (as a criminal) I'm less likely to bother buying a gun (which, if I'm caught with I'm going to get busted for even if I hadn't been caught doing anything else).  Ergo, less violence, all in all.  It's a domino thing.  Allow less guns.  Less people buy guns.  Manufacturers cut back on gun production (why make more than you can sell).  Less guns available.  Won't ever happen in the United States, but that's the idea anyhow.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 2:29 PM on January 6, 2006 | IP
skins38

|     |       Report Post



Member
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Gun control would work if criminals bought guns in strores but they dont.  They buy the guns on the street.  The CDC did a exstensive study about gun control and their finding was that it did nothing to drop crime.   If you were a criminal that would carry a gun chances are you are already a felon and therefore you cant buy guns in stores in way because of background checks.  Where do they get them then?  the streets.  Criminals will always have guns no matter what laws are passed period.  the question is will law abiding citizens always have guns to defend themselfs with?


-------
2nd Amendment- First line of defense;Last resort to combat tyranny and oppression.
 


Posts: 97 | Posted: 5:41 PM on January 12, 2006 | IP
K8

|      |       Report Post




Regular
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

It's easier for a law-abiding citizen to become a criminal if they can easily access a deadly weapon such as a gun.
 


Posts: 292 | Posted: 6:51 PM on January 12, 2006 | IP
SilverStar

|        |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

And it is easier for a 250lbs man to cut my throat with a stake knife when I do not have a gun. Sounds like a good plan.


-------
Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 5:07 PM on January 10, 2007 | IP
EMyers

|     |       Report Post




Fanatic
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

Hmmm, never had a guy come at me with a stake before.  Of course, I'm not a vampire.  Of course, if I had a gun I suppose I could blow his head off and feel better about myself.   Nah, no I wouldn't.


-------
"Thou believest that God is one; thou does well: the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19 - Belief is never enough.
 


Posts: 1287 | Posted: 6:36 PM on January 10, 2007 | IP
SilverStar

|        |       Report Post




Junkie
Post Score
Adjustment:
n/a

Rate this post:

No, but you be alive, and that looser wouldn't kill no more.


-------
Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 6:48 PM on January 10, 2007 | IP
    
[ Single page for this topic ]

Topic Jump
« Back | Next »
[ Single page for this topic ]
Forum moderated by: admin
    

Topic options: Lock topic | Unlock topic | Make Topic Sticky | Remove Sticky | Delete thread | Move thread | Merge thread

 

© YouDebate.com
Powered by: ScareCrow version 2.12
© 2001 Jonathan Bravata. All rights reserved.