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deltabravo20

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Without getting emotional about it, I cannot see a logical reason for a private, ordinary citizen to own a weapon of military characteristics and high rate of fire. I can understand the usual hunting rifle, or the small caliber pistol, (even though killing animals for sport is inhumane and immoral in my opinion). I am in the military myself, and I've seen the type of damage weapons of military characteristics can do.
 There's the issue of individual freedom, and what I say to that is that freedom has its foundations in personal responsibility. I am free to start yelling Fire! in the middle of a crowded movie theater, yet I don't do it, because I know that will put people in danger....so it is with guns. In my experience, most people do not have the responsibility, training, or right frame of mind to own a small caliber handgun, much less a military type weapon.


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The United States Army..... Persuasive In Peace, Invincible In War
 


Posts: 3 | Posted: 03:47 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
madbilly

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the definition by law of an assault rifle is basically just a rifle with a flash suppresso a bayonet lug, and a pistol grip. No high rate of fire, no super duper mega bullets. Just the way it looks makes it an assault rifle....they are the same thingas any other rifle no difference...dont be fooled by the liberal lies.


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my name is madbilly....what did you expect me to be happy when my name says Mad in it...
 


Posts: 451 | Posted: 04:01 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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liberal lies, hah!! what about your conservative lies?


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 04:39 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
Bograt

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Why don't we use the law of averages here. We start with the "liberal lies": guns are evilhorriblenasytbad things that will rape your sister and kill everyone and conquer the universe just because they exist.  Next, the "conservative lies": Guns are honderful things that will cure AIDS and stop world hunger and bring peace to the land. NOW, the middle: guns DO NOTHING BY THEMSELVS!!!  It is the intent of the owner/user whatever that makes guns what they are. Give a crackpot idiot a single shot, bolt action rifle and he/she will take pot shots at you. Give redneck joe shmo a Bushmaster XR-15 and he'll kill a few road signs and maybe a deer to feed his family. See the differance? It's the intent of the user. Oh, yeah manditory saftey training for people that want to buy guns of any sort is a good idea, be it military training or civilian.


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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 09:39 AM on December 12, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

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I am afraid it is too late for your reasoning.  I only joined the NRA after I saw a Million Mom Marcher on TV proclaim : "first we get a ship, then we put all the guns on the ship, then we sink the ship".  It horrified me so much that I looked up the phone number for the NRA and was a member 15 minutes later.

I belive that this fight is an all or nothing game.  It is too late for a sensible system of controls.  
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 11:23 PM on December 20, 2002 | IP
Pie

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" : "first we get a ship, then we put all the guns on the ship, then we sink the ship".  "
...Then I buy a submarine...  



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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 4:22 PM on December 23, 2002 | IP
David_B_Thompson

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Right!  Listen, we need to legalize all modern firearms, especially automatic and other military types!  Why did the Founding Fathers write the Second Amendment?  So that We the People could defend our families and our freedom!  From who?  Three groups specifically:

1. Outside enemies trying to barge their way in.  (Including terrorists)
2. Inside criminal forces.
3. Our own government!!!

The Founders recognized that the purpose for government is to defend our freedom!  They also knew that government tends to take away the freedom of the People, rather than to protect it.  So they listed among our rights the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.  (Note: they did not give us this right, they merely listed it; God gave us this right!)

Now think about it, how are we supposed to defend our freedom against our government if they were to turn on us,  and all we have is a handful of shotguns and handguns against their fully automatic machine guns and assault rifles?

I say legalize ALL firearms!  We should be able to own TANKS if we wanted to (and could afford it!)!

First we pass the laws, then we all buy machine guns with 10,000 rounds of ammunition!!!


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David B. Thompson


God
Bless
America!!!
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 07:25 AM on December 25, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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ok lets all give a hand to david for his argument for more violence. listen david, do you honestly think that assault rifles could stop the US government if they turned on us? of course not! all the government would need to do is pull out their nuclear weapons. AN INCREASE IN GUN OWNERS MEANS AN INCREASE IN HOMICIDES!!! i've been reading ur posts lately david, and you are so blinded by ur conservative ideologies, that you cant see that weapons like guns kill!!!


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:50 AM on December 26, 2002 | IP
Pie

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"do you honestly think that assault rifles could stop the US government if they turned on us? " I'm thinking that what is essentially a citizens army consisting of over 50 million people equipped with assult rifles could rape the government forces of 2 million or so.


"all the government would need to do is pull out their nuclear weapons. " Mmmhmm. They try to enslave us by killing us. That'd be bright.

"AN INCREASE IN GUN OWNERS MEANS AN INCREASE IN HOMICIDES!!! " Do you have
any facts whatsoever to back this up?


"that weapons like guns kill!!! "Of course. Guns are indeed living entities that run around sshooting things, and then reloading themselves so that they can shoot some more. Guess I better barracade the closet shut to keep the eeevil weapons away, eh?


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 01:08 AM on December 26, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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where do you come with the figure of 50 million people? i doubt 50 million people in the US are very good with an assault rifle


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 02:09 AM on December 27, 2002 | IP
David_B_Thompson

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Bravo Pie!  Well said!  Fallingup, you've obviously been following my posts!  Yep, I'm a Conservative, but blinded?  No!  Read what I have to say and you'll find out pretty quickly that I have solid facts and arguments to back up my position!

Pie asked if you have any evidence to back up your claims that "An increase in gun owners means an increase in homicides".  You didn't answer that one.  Well, if you can't support your claims, allow me to support mine!  The NRA has a regular publication filled with accounts of how guns have saved lives and property!  Think about it for a minute, guns are sometimes used in crimes, so a liberally controlled government makes it illegal to own certain types of guns and difficult to legally own any type of gun.  Obviously, this will solve our problem since all of those good law-abiding criminals will now find that they can no longer obtain guns for their crimes because it's illegal!  (Armed robbery used to be legal back when guns were sold freely you know)  Please!  Who will be seriously hindered in their ability to own a gun?  Law-respecting citizens!  Now, since fewer of those now own guns, what happens to crime levels?  They rise!  Criminals will always be able to obtain guns, it's their victims who won't be able to!

About that 50 million people; there would most likely be more if our constitutional right to keep and bear arms was respected!

I would also like to point out that if it weren't for guns (and God's intervention, of course!) America wouldn't even exist as a nation!  You have a bunch of gunowners to thank for your freedom!  And now we're going to let that freedom be taken away from us?  The freedom for which so many men gave up their lives?  Was their blood shed in vain?  What about those who are, even now, fighting to keep
America a free nation?  Are you willing to walk up to  the widow of a serviceman killed in duty and say "sorry, but while your husband was off giving his life for his children's freedom, we've been destroying it from the inside"?

You've accused me of being "blinded" by my "conservative ideologies".  Hardly!  You, on the other hand, seem to be blinded by your liberal ideologies!

Yes, guns can kill, but who or what they kill is determined by the person who holds them.  Guns are a critical element in the defence of our basic, God given rights!


-------
David B. Thompson


God
Bless
America!!!
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 2:10 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Pie

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Falling-there are roughly 83 million gun owners in the US. Assult guns are very cool, and a large percentage would purchase them, due to their effectiveness in stopping criminals, stopping Jack-Booted Thugs (more commonly known as ATF agents), ect.

David lays it out well, in terms even you should understand. If you don't...


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 4:06 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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ahh yes, you are right pie. assault rifles and death are very cool


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 11:22 PM on December 27, 2002 | IP
Pie

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A)Yes, assault rifles are cool.
B)You still have not presented any evidence that an increase in gun ownership creates an increase in death, yet you still flaunt the idea.

(Edited by Pie 12/28/2002 at 01:37 AM).


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 01:36 AM on December 28, 2002 | IP
David_B_Thompson

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And you obviously haven't checked out the evidence to the contrary to which I directed you!  Check it out, or just think about it for a minute.  The higher the rate of gun ownership, the lower the crime rate!  If you were a criminal, wouldn't you think twice if you knew that your victim had a gun?  Especially since you would be unlikely to have a gun yourself!  (Judging from the number of crimes which are committed without guns!)


-------
David B. Thompson


God
Bless
America!!!
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 06:57 AM on December 28, 2002 | IP
Maynard

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 11:22 PM on December 27, 2002 :
ahh yes, you are right pie. assault rifles and death are very cool


without death and guns you would not be here right now.  many people died to give you your freedom, and many guns where used to create, and protect the constitution which gives you the right to sit at your computer and speak what you feel.

you seem so caught up in your liberal ideals that you dont realize what you are giving up.  where do you think youll be if there is a ban on guns in America?  if not you what about your children?  

If you dont like guns, fine, stay away from them the best you can, and dont start crying when you get robbed, and your wife gets raped,  and the cops didnt get there on time to help you.  people like you are going to ruin the freedoms we in this country have left.

heres a question for you to ponder.  why do politicians have armed body gaurds?  why dont they use 911?


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I love my country, but fear my government.

your friendly ultra-conservative patriot.
 


Posts: 270 | Posted: 9:49 PM on December 28, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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i've lived 19 years without having a gun in the house and i have been just fine thank you


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 11:51 PM on December 28, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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oh yeah, i should be soooo thankful for guns. i'm sure the parents of the kids at Columbine who got killed are very thankful too. i'm sure they are very very thankful that the two teen murderers were able to have simple access to guns.


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 11:54 PM on December 28, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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dave, you want me to support my claims?? well here ya go,

In 1994 Governor Weld OF Massachusetts signed a law that banned handgun possession for people under 21 in Boston. a year after Weld signed the law, Boston, riddled with youth murders in the early 1990s, began a 2 1/2-year spell without a gun murder of a child under 17.

now its ur turn to give me FACTUAL information or statistics. u demanded that i give you some so why dont you? dont be a hypocrite now...


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 12:10 AM on December 29, 2002 | IP
Pie

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". i'm sure the parents of the kids at Columbine who got killed are very thankful too. " And I'm sure if the attackers had registered their guns and owned trigger locks, this never would have happened. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the Tec 9's used in the shooting were purchased illegally.

"now its ur turn to give me FACTUAL information or statistics. "
www.guncite.com
and
www.codyexpress.com
are good places to start.

-firearms are used over 2.5 million times per year in the US in protection of innocent life and limb. Over 400,000 of these are believed to have saved human life.
-the 43:1 is BS. Ask why....I dare you.
-Gun control laws stop all the law-abiding criminals out there from owning guns, but is this the group we're worried about?

"i'm sure they are very very thankful that the two teen murderers were able to have simple access to guns."
I'm sure the 3000 people who died in the Sept. 11 attacks were very thankful that no one onboard was armed.
I'm sure the 6 million Jews who were disarmed, then systematically slaughtered in Nazi Germany were very thankful for their limited (read:nonexistant) access to guns.
I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of...you get the idea.

Also, where do you get your information? It doesn't look very trustworthy, I'll have to check it out.




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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 12:47 AM on December 29, 2002 | IP
fallingupwards84

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hmmm, maybe this website?? and those gun cites you list are complete crap. they're all biased


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i am a liberal chrisitian and proud of it!!!

"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least." - Eugene Debs
 


Posts: 971 | Posted: 01:20 AM on December 29, 2002 | IP
Pie

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" and those gun cites you list are complete crap. they're all biased" And I assume that anything said on the Brady Bunch website is the Word of God?


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A Mac is to a PC is what a Lamborghini is to a Honda Civic.
 


Posts: 202 | Posted: 4:34 PM on December 29, 2002 | IP
kelvin90703

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 11:51 PM on December 28, 2002 :
i've lived 19 years without having a gun in the house and i have been just fine thank you



Durring the 1986 winter Olympics the country was unified, the government maintained a stable peace.  Ten years later in neighboring villages of Bosnia and Serbia a few men with rifles wouild drive into town and rape all the women from ages 10 to 60, and castrate all the men they did not kill.  Did anyone in 1986 think they would need assault weapons for self protection?  Did anyone even envision genocide?  Can you promise it will never happen here?

I can remember quite clearly in TV villagers pleading to the world if they do not send help, then at least send weapons so they can protect themselves.

Well all I know is for an insurance policy of a few hundred dollars and a couple rounds of ammo, I will never be castrated.  How about you?

My $.02


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 12:58 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
David_B_Thompson

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Kelvin, you're absolutely right!  That post was worth more than two cents!


-------
David B. Thompson


God
Bless
America!!!
 


Posts: 43 | Posted: 4:23 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
Bograt

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Quick definitions (criminal)


noun:   someone who has committed (or been legally convicted of) a crime
adjective:   relating to crime or its punishment (Example: "Criminal court")
adjective:   guilty of crime or serious offense (Example: "Criminal in the sight of God and man")
adjective:   involving or being or having the nature of a crime (Example: "A criminal offense")
adjective:   bringing or deserving severe rebuke or censure (Example: "A criminal waste of talent")
(http://www.onelook.com/?w=criminal&ls=a)
That means they DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW!!! No matter how tight the gun control laws get, no matter how many of our rights get smashed, the criminals will get there guns!!!!


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Damn you Murphy!
 


Posts: 134 | Posted: 10:50 PM on December 30, 2002 | IP
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wow,

exoss you may be one of the least informed least intelligent people i have ever wasted my time replying to.

thank you for making me a firm believer in mandatory birth controll.



 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:56 PM on February 6, 2003 | IP
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wow falling upwards is also quite ignorant.

what a terrible thing, all you people wasting my air like this.


 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 2:01 PM on February 6, 2003 | IP
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Quote from Exxoss at 3:22 PM on September 25, 2002 :
Yes.  Any kind of gun can kill, assault guns just make it easier.  Less kill, more thrill.



Here is a real "Assault Gun"....


SU-122
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:56 AM on May 16, 2003 | IP
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Exxodus u are a freaking moron. What the hell is wrong with u?
 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 1:16 PM on May 16, 2003 | IP
Dowter

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 12:10 AM on December 29, 2002 :
dave, you want me to support my claims?? well here ya go,

In 1994 Governor Weld OF Massachusetts signed a law that banned handgun possession for people under 21 in Boston. a year after Weld signed the law, Boston, riddled with youth murders in the early 1990s, began a 2 1/2-year spell without a gun murder of a child under 17.

now its ur turn to give me FACTUAL information or statistics. u demanded that i give you some so why dont you? dont be a hypocrite now...


Um... I have some questions about this statistic of yours that I see on this website.

Where did you get it from?  I can't find it mentioned anywhere else on the internet.

There are certain obvious questions that come to mind from this alleged fact.

Exactly... (and please cite your source)
How many murders for "under 17" before and after the ban.
How many murders for "under 21" before and after the ban.
Was this for Boston or all of Massachussetts?

If this statistic that you present was true then it would be waved around all the time by anti-gunners but I haven't heard anyone else use it.




 


Posts: 0 | Posted: 10:14 PM on May 26, 2003 | IP
crunker

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Quote from Exxoss at 3:22 PM on September 25, 2002 :
Yes.  Any kind of gun can kill, assault guns just make it easier.  Less kill, more thrill.



No gun is able to kill.
A person is able to kill, with the help of any number of tools, including, yes firearms.

"Assault weapons" don't make it easier to kill.  They aren't deadlier than other semiautos in any way.  They just have some easily changeable features that make them look more threatening, so therefore people assume that they're deadlier.

 


Posts: 10 | Posted: 4:55 PM on October 31, 2006 | IP
TRIGGER

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Quote from fallingupwards84 at 12:10 AM on December 29, 2002 :
dave, you want me to support my claims?? well here ya go,

In 1994 Governor Weld OF Massachusetts signed a law that banned handgun possession for people under 21 in Boston. a year after Weld signed the law, Boston, riddled with youth murders in the early 1990s, began a 2 1/2-year spell without a gun murder of a child under 17.

now its ur turn to give me FACTUAL information or statistics. u demanded that i give you some so why dont you? dont be a hypocrite now...


Well you have your claims wrong who ever said this is wrong. I have held a LTC in Mass for 30 years. I got it when I turned 21, I wanted to get it earlier but the law prevented it. The law stated that you had to be 21 to get a lic. to carry. There was a provision that allowed you to get it under 21 but after 18 only through a court, You had to show that your life was in iminent danger, This part I am fuzzy on since this was over 30 years ago but I beleave your parents had to aprove and I think the lic. had to be renewed yearly. If Weld did sign a law it woud have been redundant all he would have done is remove the provision.

In the early 90's the LTC laws changed in Mass. Before this the LTC had only two reasons for issue, hunting and target, and protection of persons and property. The protection lic was hard to get and was the lic. that allowed you to carry a loaded gun concealed on your person for protection, Hunting and target did not. Since the LTC law was a shall issue law the chief's only control was he could chose which reason. The law changed the lic. reason, to all lawful purpose's which made it so anyone with an LTC could carry for protection drasticaly increasing the # of people allowed to carry concealed for protection, Since It was still shall issue the chief had no choice in the matter any more.    




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MACHINE GUNS? go to WWW.hansonshoot.com
 


Posts: 127 | Posted: 3:53 PM on November 1, 2006 | IP
SilverStar

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Personally I prefer the German WWII Hunting Tiger.
specs: 71 tons, 128mm gun, 200mm frontal steel armor plating, 202mm penetration, 80mm penetration at 4000 yards, MG 34 with 500 rounds. That is a real assault gun.


-------
Darkside Enterprises were the impossible meets possible.

Tread softy and carry a big stick, preferably an AT4
 


Posts: 681 | Posted: 9:01 PM on January 9, 2007 | IP
    
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